Episode 181

7 Tools to Navigate Conversations About Race and Identity with Michael Fosberg

Published on: 24th January, 2024

My guest today spent the first 30 years of his life thinking he was white. It wasn’t until he spoke to his biological father for the first time that he discovered that he is half black. 

Since then Michael has utilized his award winning autobiographical story, told in the form of a one-man play, as an entry point for meaningful dialogues on race and identity, and in his most recent book Nobody Wants to Talk About It: he has assembled a set of seven important tools and takeaways useful in navigating uncomfortable conversations about race and identity - something this country desperately needs. 

Listen in as I talk with Michael about these 7 tools and so many other ideas around race and identity.


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Transcript
Julie:

Could you imagiNe a scenario in which your entire identity

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could change in a split second?

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This is exactly what happened to my

guest today, Michael Fosberg, who was

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raised in a working class Armenian

American family led by his biological

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mother and his adoptive father.

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When, in his 30s, his parents

divorced, Michael began a search to

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find his long lost father, a search

that would forever change his life.

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Welcome to episode 181 of this shit

works, a podcast dedicated to all

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things, networking, relationship

building, and business development.

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I'm your host, Julie Brown, speaker,

author, and networking coach.

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And today I am joined by Michael speaker,

playwright, and author of the book,

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race, identity, and the difficulties

in forging meaningful conversations.

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When Michael decided to look

for his biological father, his

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mother gave him information on

where she knew he had last lived.

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Michael tracked him down by phone

and to his great relief, his

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father was happy to talk to him.

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But in that first conversation, his father

told him something that would change

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Everything about the way he saw himself.

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His father is black.

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Since then, Michael has utilized his

award winning autobiographical story

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told in the form of a one man play.

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As an entry point for meaningful dialogues

on race and identity, and in his most

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recent book, Nobody Wants to Talk About

It, he has assembled a set of seven

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important tools and takeaways useful in

navigating uncomfortable conversations

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about race and identity, something

that this country desperately needs.

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Michael, welcome to the podcast.

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Michael: Thank you, Julie.

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So good to be with you.

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It's so weird to hear your story.

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Julie: Isn't it?

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You're like, you, you almost like

sort of disassociate from it.

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And then you realize, oh, that's my story.

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Michael: wait, that's me.

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Oh, well, yeah.

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Julie: Let's talk about that day, that day

that you first talked to your father and

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that you learned that you're a half black.

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Like, how did your sense

of self change that day?

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Cause up until that point,

you thought you were white.

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Michael: Yeah, yeah.

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So for listeners who can't see us, uh, I,

I pass, I guess, is the phrase that's used

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in the black community passing as white.

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Um, or am I passing is, I guess,

another question that could be asked.

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I mean, what is passing?

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Passing in the black community?

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Black community is that you have a light

enough skin to pass as a white person.

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But am I, what am I, I

guess is a bigger question.

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Am I biracial?

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What am I, Barack Obama was a biracial

president, but we all call him black.

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So, um, the dead day you asked

about that day, uh, it was crazy.

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I mean, you know, I didn't know who

my father was for all those years.

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Although I grew up with a

very loving father, loving.

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family household.

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Um, they had divorced and that's

what sort of spurred me to, to

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look for my biological father.

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And so I was, filled with some grief

of my parents splitting up , and

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also some wonder and curiosity and

some anxiety about, you know, looking

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for the man who I didn't know and

tracking him down in the first phone

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call, which is kind of a miracle.

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Um, and then in that first phone call,

him proceeding to tell me And, and,

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and in addition to that, if that,

as if that wasn't enough to sort of

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change your whole being and thinking

and all of that, he, he also proceeded

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to tell me about my family history,

dating all the way back to slavery.

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My great great grandfather was a

member of the 54th regiment and the

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colored infantry unit in the civil war.

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My great grandfather was an all

star pitcher in the Negro Leagues.

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He pitched for the St.

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Louis Stars.

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And my grandfather was a genius in the

science and engineering departments

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at Norfolk State University and

HBC is named after my grandfather.

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So, so all of that came

in the first phone call.

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So you, you know, just, just, just

unpacking all of that, obviously was,

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was an enormous task and, uh, and, uh,

subsequently led to many years of therapy.

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Julie: Oh, I would imagine.

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I mean, number one, everybody should go to

therapy, no matter if you have, if you are

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finding out all of these, all these things

about your, your past and your lineage.

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Everybody should go to therapy anyways.

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Michael: Agreed.

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Julie: Um, that sort of explains

to me why you had so much to pour

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into this one man show that you did.

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I also am a person who was reconnected

to a biological father when I was adult,,

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and I think there are certain times

in our life where we just are, I don't

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know, we're just wondering who we are

and where we came from and trying to

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make sense of why we do the things we do.

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Is it nature or nurture?

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But I can imagine that was almost

like information overload for you.

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There

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Michael: Yes.

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Yes.

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Well, I think you just, you

just nailed it there, though.

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I think everybody goes on this journey.

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Obviously, you and I, having

searched for a biological parent,

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it's a, it's a, it's a much bigger,

shall we say, surprise or whatever.

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But everyone's on a journey

of trying to discover who

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they are, how they fit in, um,

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I mean, these are all things

that we're trying to figure out

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like where, where, who are we?

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That's the journey of identity.

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And I talk about this a lot in

the work that I do is that Um, our

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journey of identity is constantly

evolving, constantly changing.

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It's not like you get to a place

in your life and you go, that's it.

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I know who I am.

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I mean, things happen in your life.

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Like I don't, you know, simple things,

whether it's you get married and

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now you see yourself as a husband

or a wife or you have kids and

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suddenly you see yourself as a parent

or your kids have kids and suddenly

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you see yourself as a grandparent.

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These are more simplistic things,

but these are things that change in

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the way that we see our identities.

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And so.

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To have such a big, jump in my identity

and certainly I would imagine for you

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to, to, to discover your biological

father put into place for you a lot of

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questions that you had asked yourself.

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Julie: you know, it's interesting.

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My story is a little bit

different than you are.

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I always knew who my biological

father was and I knew his family.

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I just didn't have a

relationship with him.

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He was a strange, um, and he was a strange

for a lot of different reasons, but make

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a long story short, when he got sober,

is when tried to reconnect with me.

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And it's funny because when you don't

know who your biological father is or

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you don't spend time with them, there

are pieces of your personality where

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you wonder where things came from.

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And then almost, it's like, it's almost

like you're putting puzzle pieces

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together when you meet that other person.

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Now you've got it on a

whole different level.

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I didn't find out my father was a

different race than I thought I was.

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But I think it's also You know, you lived

your first 30 something years of your

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life, identifying as a certain race,

and then the next part of your life,

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I, you know, having that knowledge that

you are a different, you are a different

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race than you thought you were, which

I'm assuming is how, what prepared you

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to write the book that you just wrote,

the nobody wants to talk about it.

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Michael: Yes.

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Julie: I, and I think that we're,

we as a country of immigrants, we're

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never not going to talk about race.

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We are all different races.

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So why do you think it's so difficult

for us to talk about it knowing that

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we live in a country of immigrants?

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Michael: Wow, you, you've kind of

hit the nail on the head, so as

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they, as the cliche goes, I mean.

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Um, you know, right now we live in

an era, not just in our country, but

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in the world in which immigration

and immigrants are looked down upon.

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And so, whether ever it might be, whether

it's their religion, the color of their

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skin, what they believe, uh, how they

look, all of these different things play

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into how people judge, uh, immigrants.

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The question of race and having

conversation about race is a, is, is

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fraught., on multiple levels, for many

reasons, uh, look, we, when, when we're

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asked to have a conversation about

race, in mixed company, it can be very

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awkward and uncomfortable, primarily

because as, as white people, and I'm

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both, so it's complicated, but, but,

but also because as white people.

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We come to the table with

apprehensions, with cautions.

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We're cautious about talking about

Christ because we don't want to

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say anything that might sound

racist or offensive or whatever.

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Also, we probably haven't had that

conversation in our immediate families

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while we were growing up because it wasn't

necessary to have that conversation.

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So I think for me, especially as a

white man, well white, I'm biracial

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now, as growing up as a white person.

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Um, like race wasn't something that we had

a lot of conversation about in my family.

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And so now I was interjecting

that conversation into my family.

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So there was a little bit of hesitation in

how we go about having that conversation.

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On the other side of the issue,

we have people of color who, are

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constantly having the conversation

about race, but are ready to pounce

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on anyone or anybody that sound says

something that sounds remotely racist.

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And so we're polarized and we

don't have the conversation.

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And what I'm suggesting to all of

us is Yes, it's going to be messy,

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but we need to have that dialogue.

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We need to get comfortable

being uncomfortable.

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Julie: In your, in your book, you

say that there are seven tools to

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start having these conversations.

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Can we break those down

a little bit so that,

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Michael: yes, absolutely.

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I just said one right there.

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It's get comfortable being uncomfortable.

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That is, uh, in the, in the

book, it's tool number five.

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But the first tool is,

um, is tell your story.

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Um, and this is so beautiful

because you just did that with me.

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You just told me a little bit about

your story and we found a commonality.

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We have more in common

than we have difference.

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So the first tool is tell your story.

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That's where we find our commonalities.

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The second tool is don't

judge the differences.

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Flip the script.

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Instead of allowing the differences to

create a wall between us, find a mutual

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interest and then embrace the differences.

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After all, if we were all

the same, We'd be bored.

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We'd be bored.

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We all love that.

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Look, I think you have

fantastic glasses on listeners.

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Trust me.

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She's got fantastic glasses.

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But you went out and found those

glasses because you love the way they

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looked and the uniqueness of them so

that you could be your unique self.

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The same with me.

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I like unique glasses.

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I want to be my unique self.

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We each have these individual aspects

about us that want to be unique, and

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yet we also want to fit in as a whole.

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So what I'm suggesting is Uh, it's a, it's

a, it's a theory called intergroup contact

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theory, and that's the proven theory

that by sharing our personal stories

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across majority and minority populations,

we can break down the prejudices that

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exist between us by discovering we have

more in common than we have different.

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That's a fact.

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Julie: mhm,

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Michael: So those are the first two tools.

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The second tool is that we need to

recognize that there isn't one way.

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To have a conversation

about race and identity.

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I, if there was one way to

do it, we'd all be doing it.

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That would make it a lot easier, right?

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But, but we all come to the table with

a different experience of race and

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identity, and that's why it's so messy.

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There isn't just one way to do it.

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Um, number four, and this is so important

in today's society, we can disagree

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so long as we're not disagreeable.

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Julie: Mm hmm.

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Michael: Once we are disagreeable,

the conversation stops.

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Let's just agree that we

don't agree on this particular

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issue, or whatever it might be.

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But when you become disagreeable, you

stop the conversation from moving forward.

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And so, um, that's something.

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Take responsibilities.

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Freedom of speech

carries responsibilities.

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We need to accept the

responsibilities of that.

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Number five, as I mentioned, is get

comfortable being uncomfortable.

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Number six is.

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Understand there are realities

outside of our own experiences.

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Just because we haven't, um, maybe we

haven't experienced racism or sexism

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or homophobia or age discrimination or

disability indifference doesn't mean that

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those are not realities for other people.

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And so we need to accept that.

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And number seven is, um, and

this is a very, uh, Difficult

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and also very deep thing.

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It's, um, we need to practice forgiveness.

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Um, it is, uh, often been described

as the hardest work you will ever

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do, but also the most rewarding.

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Julie: I don't think

I am good at that one.

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And any part of my life, I gotta tell

ya, Michael, I literally, I'm, everybody

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who listens to this knows I'm like a

big fan of true crime and whatever.

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And even this morning, I, oh, I, The news

program, Good Morning America, was running

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a little thing, on the Murdaugh, case.

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And this particular one was

the fraud and money laundering

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Michael: Yes.

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Yes.

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Julie: And there were people in, in,

that he had stolen millions of dollars

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from, In these lawsuits that they had

gotten insurance money and then he

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had stolen the insurance money and one

woman Said, you know, I forgive you

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and I was like that those words are

not the words that would come out of

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my mouth And I think it is a huge flaw.

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It is a character flaw of mine, but I

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Michael: Well,

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Julie: is tough for me

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Michael: well, let me, let me just

say, just because you forgive someone

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doesn't mean you condone their behavior.

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Julie: Yeah

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Michael: can forgive someone and not

condone their behavior and still think

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what they did was evil or wrong or

whatever you want to describe it as.

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But I will say this, if you continue

to hold on to that resentment, that

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resentment will always be there.

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It will weigh on you.

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And by allowing yourself to let

that go, you are freeing yourself.

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And so I'm not suggesting that I'm

perfect at this at all, but I'm

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suggesting that this is something

that we could all take a look to as a

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means to help, uh, lessen some of the

anger that's in our atmosphere today.

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Julie: Yeah.

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I mean it seems like those seven

steps are, or tools not steps because

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you don't have to do them in that

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Michael: No, you don't.

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No.

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Julie: There are two of us.

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I mean, and I think any of them

alone would be helpful, but

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obviously together they change, um,

relationships and conversations.

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You know, as we sit here today having

this conversation, we're in the middle

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of a ceasefire in, in the Gaza Strip for

the, transfer of hostages and prisoners.

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And I just wonder, like,

sometimes you look and...

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And have we entered a time in which

there's just too much hatred for things

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to get better or to be different?

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Like, I'd love to know

your thoughts on that.

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Michael: Well, I'm glad you asked that.

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Um, I would say, I'm laughing

when I'm saying this.

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I would say I have a little bit more of a

pessimistic view about it, but that being

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said, that being said, I mean, there is a

lot of, uh, strife, let's call it whatever

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war strife, whatever in the world today.

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And I, I can only speak, um, I guess

directly about what's happening

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in my own sphere, in my own.

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World, meaning in the United States.

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I don't live in Israel.

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I don't live in Ukraine.

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I live here and I deal with people here

and I'm distraught as, as perhaps you

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are at what is happening in our country.

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Um, our politics are poisoned.

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Our, our, our, our people are

poisoned and angry with one another.

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And all I can say is that if we don't

make some concerted efforts to either use

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these tools or find ways in which we can

speak with one another in a civil manner

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and not allow our anger to overtake us.

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We're, we're doomed.

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We've got to do this.

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This is the only way.

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There's no magic pill that's

going to get us out of this.

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There's no, you know, can't wave a wand

and say, okay, we're, it's all okay.

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We are the ones who have to do this.

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And that is why I am so committed to doing

this work, traveling around the country,

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speaking with, you know, Corporations and

government agencies and military bases

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and high schools and colleges and trying

to get them to understand that we may

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have differences in ideology, differences

in skin color, differences in gender,

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differences in the way that we see the

world, but we actually have more in common

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than we have different, and we need to

find those commonalities and embrace them.

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Julie: Yeah.

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I'd love to know your thoughts.

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I did a podcast a few months ago

on how corporate DEI statements are

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actually a turnoff to most candidates

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Michael: Yes.

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Julie: because there's

no substance behind it.

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There's no reason behind it.

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It's more like, Oh, we have

to have a DEI statement.

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So we'll craft a DEI statement.

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Um, I'd love to know how you work

with companies, organizations, to

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have it be something that is part of

the fabric of their company and not

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something that they think that they

have to do and not really dig deep into

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it to make it part of their culture.

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Michael: Uh, boy, how do I answer this?

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First of all, I guess I would

say there is currently right

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now a lot of pushback on that.

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As you mentioned, there's a

lot of pushback on DE& I and

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DE& I statements in general.

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And although I am, uh, I guess what I

do is sort of branded in that space,

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my message is so much bigger than that.

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And so I've been trying to utilize,

different, I don't know, words

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or phrasing to sort of get at

what it is that I'm trying to...

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My message, what...

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synthesize what my message is.

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And my message is about authenticity,

belonging, and community.

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If I were to think about that

to me, it is the essence of what

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I'm trying to get at and every

company, every community needs that

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Julie: hmm.

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Mm hmm.

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Michael: So, I also realized

that, a lot of people haven't

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reframed what things are.

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And so they're still calling it

this., And I'm speaking of D.

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E.

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and I in particular diversity,

equity, inclusion and belonging.

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Sometimes it's called that.

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It's a bigger picture or whatever.

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I guess I would say, I think

it's important for us to

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remember that we need to be more.

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I'm just going to use the I

word, inclusive, because it

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brings us, greater outcomes.

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Every study, every test, every poll,

everything that you look at shows that

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the wider variety of people that you bring

in and embrace, The greater the outcomes,

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whether it's in an educational institution

or it's in a business, the more that you

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can bring a wide variety of people into

the fold, I guess is the way to put it,

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the greater the outcomes you will have.

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You're not going to leave, and you

know, to leave it, um, just to say

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the crassness of it, you're not going

to leave any money on the table.

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You're going to be able to bring

in a lot of different people who

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are going to embrace your message,

your service, your product.

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Julie: Yeah.

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And I think a lot of, on a very human

level, I think a lot of our fear of

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other people, I don't know another

better, better word for that, fear

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of other people is just not knowing

where they come from, not having an

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understanding of their culture, of how

things are different, of how things that

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are normal in the way I grew up are not

normal in the way other people grow up.

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And there's.

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Like you said, there's no one

right way to have a conversation.

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Well, there's, there's things that are

different that are innately different.

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And the reason we don't understand

them is because we haven't

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taken the time to discover them.

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Michael: Absolutely.

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Tool.

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Tool number one.

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Tell your story.

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Tell your story.

369

:

Again, there are, you're going to find,

you're going to discover a rich array

370

:

of commonalities, but you're also going

to hear some differences and you're

371

:

going to go, Oh, that's interesting.

372

:

I want to know more about that.

373

:

You know, I once heard a CEO of

a huge multinational corporation.

374

:

Um, I used to, uh, They

used to have amazing.

375

:

They used to have a diversity conference

every year, and they would invite about

376

:

1000 of their employees from sites

all across the world, and they would

377

:

gather together for three days, and

they would have an intensive diversity

378

:

training experience, and the CEO would

open up the conference and speak,

379

:

and he would talk about, you know,

the state of affairs that are today.

380

:

At our corporation and

talk all about this stuff.

381

:

And then he would open up the room to

accept questions from people in the room.

382

:

So people got to ask their CEO a question,

which, you know, who gets to do that?

383

:

Rarely do that.

384

:

So, but he said, before you ask your

question, I have a couple of, uh,

385

:

of things I need to know from you.

386

:

First, I want you to tell me

the site that you work at.

387

:

And second, I want you

to tell me two hobbies.

388

:

Tell me two of your hobbies.

389

:

And I thought that was a brilliant way to

open the door, like, because your hobbies

390

:

are things that we are passionate about.

391

:

And so you're describing something

that you are very passionate about that

392

:

really means something dear to you.

393

:

And not only is that interesting, but then

you may also have a commonality with that.

394

:

So the CEO didn't always have a similar

hobby as people did, but once in a

395

:

while they overlapped and certainly

things like I think one person

396

:

said once, that he was a beekeeper

and I was like, wow, that is fast.

397

:

Like, like I want to know,

but you're a beekeeper.

398

:

Julie: Mm

399

:

Michael: I want to know all about that.

400

:

That's like a fascinating hobby, you know?

401

:

And so, so it's a way I thought

it was a brilliant way to open

402

:

the door for people to connect.

403

:

Julie: It's so interesting that you

say that because,, last week I gave a

404

:

keynote, a virtual keynote in Africa to

a woman's group in Africa and I had been

405

:

connected by a mutual connection who said,

I, you know, I'd like virtually to speak

406

:

to this group in Africa on networking.

407

:

She's amazing.

408

:

You know, blah, blah, blah.

409

:

And they reached out to me

and asked me if I would do it.

410

:

And I almost turned it down because.

411

:

I was so self conscious about being A

white woman growing up in the United

412

:

States with all of the privilege that that

has being white in the United States and

413

:

lecturing to a hundred,, African women.

414

:

And I reached, when they reached

out to me, I wrote back and I

415

:

said, I'd be delighted to however.

416

:

I'm not sure that I'm the right person

for you because all of my experiences

417

:

come from this narrow experience.

418

:

Yes, I worked in male dominated

industry, but I have all of the white

419

:

privilege and I work in America.

420

:

So, and they wrote back and they

were like, yeah, that's no big deal.

421

:

And I was, I was making

it more than it was.

422

:

Um, and At the end of my presentation,

you know, I, similar to what you

423

:

do, I, what that CEO did, I have

a commonality exercise where we

424

:

find what we have in common and.

425

:

I mentioned already that

I'm very into true crime.

426

:

Most of the women there were into true

crime and wanted to talk to me about that.

427

:

And then I mentioned I'm a

dog mom and they had dogs.

428

:

And it was just like, I was only looking

at the fact that I was white and they

429

:

were black, and I wasn't looking at all

of the things we had in common, which

430

:

is your number one, tell your story

and find the commonality, but I almost

431

:

turned down that engagement because I was

so, uh, I was uncomfortable and afraid.

432

:

Michael: Yeah, well, number two

is don't judge the differences.

433

:

You were self judging your difference

between this group of women and yet,

434

:

and yet you discovered you had so much

more in common than you had different.

435

:

That's just

436

:

Julie: Yeah, I mean, and

they asked me to come back.

437

:

They were like, can you

come in person next time?

438

:

I was like, yes, I will.

439

:

I mean, I've been to South Africa.

440

:

I love the African continent.

441

:

Um, so I was like, yeah, and

I, I just, I can't believe I

442

:

almost let it hold me back.

443

:

And then if, if someone like me who is

very comfortable in my expertise and

444

:

very comfortable being an orator, almost

gave up that opportunity because of fear.

445

:

I can't imagine how prevalent it is in

people who are, you know, just starting to

446

:

test the boundaries of making connections,

which is something I'm an expert at.

447

:

So.

448

:

Michael: Yeah, indeed.

449

:

Indeed.

450

:

I would agree.

451

:

It's, uh, it gets in our way.

452

:

Julie: Yeah.

453

:

How do you, you're one man.

454

:

story, your autobiographical one man play.

455

:

I'm sure some people have come up to

you afterwards with their own stories of

456

:

finding their identity or maybe something

similar to you, um, not understanding

457

:

their, their lineage or their past.

458

:

Do any stories do you, that you

remember that stick out to you?

459

:

Michael: Oh my gosh, Julie, so

many, uh, I mean, seriously, so many

460

:

people come up to me afterwards.

461

:

Well, it is the theory that I use

again, and I didn't discover this

462

:

theory until I was well into the

journey of performing the play.

463

:

I read about it somewhere, I don't

know, in an article or something,

464

:

and I was like, Oh my gosh,

that's exactly what I'm doing.

465

:

I'm talking about...

466

:

Intergroup contact theory.

467

:

So I'm telling my story.

468

:

I'm up there.

469

:

Of course, I'm telling it perhaps in

a different way than most people would

470

:

tell it in the form of a one man play

where I play over a dozen characters

471

:

over the course of 45 minutes.

472

:

But everybody has a story, their own

personal story, and people come up

473

:

to me afterwards and tell me theirs.

474

:

And it could be, I mean, I've had

people who have had similar stories.

475

:

One, I was, I was at a business college

outside of Philadelphia and I was

476

:

backstage getting ready to do this show.

477

:

Um, and the audience, it was, you know,

huge theater and the place was packed.

478

:

You could hear all the rumbling

out in the audience and, you know,

479

:

you're backstage by yourself.

480

:

I don't know about you, but it's such a

weird feeling to be by yourself, right?

481

:

It's so lonely back there and,

and I get a little nervous.

482

:

I get nervous when I do this show and.

483

:

And suddenly I'm sort of, you know,

breathing and sort of just getting into my

484

:

routine, getting ready to go out on stage.

485

:

And this guy comes charging

backstage and he says, hi, my name

486

:

is, I don't remember his name.

487

:

My name is Jim.

488

:

And I got to tell you, I

just met my biological father

489

:

this week and he's black.

490

:

And I didn't know it.

491

:

And there's a white guy.

492

:

It's like telling me this story.

493

:

He goes, I couldn't wait

to come and hear this.

494

:

And I was like, Oh, that's so nice of you.

495

:

You could have waited until after

the show, but that is really nice.

496

:

Felt so, so never to come

backstage before I started.

497

:

So, uh, you know, and then we

talked after I did the show and

498

:

he told me more about his story.

499

:

It was incredible.

500

:

I've had, um, trans individuals

come up to me afterwards.

501

:

In tears, just talking about being

able to share their stories in

502

:

the way that I've shared mine,

and it's just been so gratifying.

503

:

I mean, again, we all go on this journey

of identity, trying to figure out where

504

:

we fit in and how we fit in and trans

people are no different than others.

505

:

They're going through a journey

in terms of trying to figure

506

:

out who they are, what they are.

507

:

And so I've had just so many people.

508

:

I'll tell you one.

509

:

One more specific story.

510

:

And this was at the very beginning

of the journey I was doing the show.

511

:

In theaters at the time.

512

:

I still had not wrapped my head around.

513

:

I wasn't even familiar with the D.

514

:

E.

515

:

and I space.

516

:

I was an actor.

517

:

I had written a play.

518

:

I was performing it in a theater.

519

:

I was in the I was at the Kansas

City Repertory Theater, a big

520

:

regional theater in Kansas City.

521

:

It was a big honor to be there.

522

:

800 seat theater.

523

:

I opened their season in 2002.

524

:

It was a huge moment for me

as an actor, as a writer.

525

:

It And, um, one night after the show,

the stage manager came backstage

526

:

and said, you know, there's a couple

waiting for you in the green room.

527

:

They, they want to meet you.

528

:

Would that be okay?

529

:

And I said, well, do

you know who they are?

530

:

And she goes, no, I don't.

531

:

And I'm like, Okay.

532

:

I don't know anybody in Kansas

City, so I wasn't expecting anybody.

533

:

So I go into the green room,

and there's this lovely couple.

534

:

They're all dressed, you

know, in nice clothing for an

535

:

evening out at the theater.

536

:

Um, husband and wife.

537

:

, and the wife comes up to me and says,

you know, we just really wanted to

538

:

thank you so deeply for you sharing

your story, for you performing it.

539

:

It just really moved us so much.

540

:

I can't even put it into words.

541

:

And my husband wanted to talk to you.

542

:

And so I turned to look at him and there

are tears in his eyes and now streaming

543

:

down his face and I'm getting choked

up just telling the story and he sort

544

:

of begins to speak to me, but he can't

get the words out instead of words

545

:

coming out, tears are coming out and

I'm looking at him and I know who he is.

546

:

He is a biracial man and he

just heard his story on stage.

547

:

It's the first time he's ever heard his

story and he can't say he he's, he's

548

:

so filled with, with love and feeling.

549

:

He can't even express it.

550

:

And his wife sort of butts in because she

realizes this is an uncomfortable moment.

551

:

She goes, he's just so

deeply moved by her story.

552

:

He just really wanted to tell you.

553

:

And I just turned back to him.

554

:

He still could not tell me.

555

:

And I just, Embraced him in a big hug

and I said, thank you so much for being

556

:

here and for coming backstage and,

and meeting me and he then choked out.

557

:

Thank you so much for telling your story.

558

:

It is so deeply close to mine.

559

:

Julie: Right.

560

:

And I think that is, the power on that

is a lot of us, we self, um, censor.

561

:

Because we're not sure that anybody cares.

562

:

You know, why would anybody care?

563

:

And you, what I've learned in telling

stories now on stages for the past eight

564

:

years is, You don't know how many people

you're going to affect and help until

565

:

you start talking and telling your story.

566

:

And then you will be amazed by

the number of people who connect

567

:

with you or relate to you or are

emboldened or because of you.

568

:

So telling your story is the,

like you said, it's number one.

569

:

Michael: Yes, number one, it's

just, we, our whole society,

570

:

our whole, the storytelling was

the first form of communication.

571

:

From cave person days, they told stories

and pictures on walls, and we do that

572

:

today in so many different ways, whether

it's in a book or a movie or a play

573

:

or a speech or, uh, just connecting

with, another person, uh, face to face.

574

:

Julie: Yeah.

575

:

Michael, thank you so much for being

here and having this conversation for

576

:

sharing your story, which I'm sure

was hard to do while you were still

577

:

going through it and processing it.

578

:

You know, one of the things they say

about being professional speakers,

579

:

you can't tell the story until

you've gone through it and you,

580

:

and you're, and you're over it.

581

:

But what you have gone through is not

something you're ever going to be over.

582

:

It's still always going to be

a part of your identity, who

583

:

you were and who you are now.

584

:

Um, I think it's very brave.

585

:

Michael: Thank you so much.

586

:

It's just a delight to be with

you and to um, have this back and

587

:

forth and to discover a little bit

about you and to find commonality.

588

:

It's, it's just delightful.

589

:

Julie: Well, thank you for being here.

590

:

Michael: Thanks.

591

:

I recorded this conversation.

592

:

About an hour after I recorded

my conversation with henna prior.

593

:

And it could not have been better

times because Like Michael said.

594

:

In order to have these

conversations, we need to get

595

:

comfortable being uncomfortable.

596

:

So we might be awkward.

597

:

As we begin to navigate these

conversations, as we begin to learn,

598

:

to share our stories and become curious

and ask about the stories of others.

599

:

And remember there's no one

way to have a conversation.

600

:

The most important thing

is that we are having the

601

:

conversation in the first place.

602

:

I hope the seven tips that Michael shared

will help ease you into discovering

603

:

new ways to connect with people.

604

:

Of all different backgrounds.

605

:

Now.

606

:

Onto the drink of the week,

which is the black and white

607

:

cocktail from the food network.

608

:

Here's what you're going to need.

609

:

Two ounces of heavy cream.

610

:

One ounce of vanilla flavored vodka, one

and a half ounces of chocolate, a core

611

:

and a chocolate swizzle stick for garnish,

which you're going to do is you're going

612

:

to fill a cocktail shaker with ice.

613

:

Add the cream and vodka cover and

shake vigorously shake, shake, shake.

614

:

About 30 seconds.

615

:

Straight into a chilled cocktail glass

and then slowly pour the chocolate

616

:

liquor into the center of the drink to

make a layered black and white cocktail.

617

:

Then you would lay that chocolate

swizzle stick across the top

618

:

of the glass and then serve it.

619

:

But before you drink it, Sir,

the layers together with this.

620

:

Swizzle stick.

621

:

Otherwise it's, shouldn't be like.

622

:

Layers of like, Alcohol

and it's not good days.

623

:

Good.

624

:

All right friends.

625

:

That's it.

626

:

That was very eloquently.

627

:

Put awkward.

628

:

All right, friends.

629

:

That's all for this week.

630

:

If you like what you heard

today, please leave a review

631

:

and subscribe to the podcast.

632

:

Please remember to share this podcast

to help it reach a larger audience.

633

:

If you want more, Julie

Brown, you find my book.

634

:

This shit works on Amazon

and Barnes and noble.

635

:

You can find me on

LinkedIn at Julie Brown BD.

636

:

Just let me know where you found me

when you reach out I'm Julie Brown

637

:

underscore BD on the Instagram, or you

can just pop on over to my website,

638

:

Julie Brown, bd.com until next week.

639

:

Cheers.

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About the Podcast

This Shit Works
The people you meet can 100% Change Your Life! Networking is how you meet those people. Which sucks because you hate networking, you think you're bad at networking, and you certainly don’t have time to network. Bullshit! Welcome to This Shit Works, a weekly podcast hosted by entrepreneur, CEO, public speaker, author, business development strategist and networking coach Julie Brown. Just don’t call her Downtown Julie Brown - she doesn’t like that.

Each week Julie will bring to you her no nonsense tips, tricks and conversations around networking your way to more friends, more adventures and way more success!
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