Episode 145
Strategic Optimism for an Uncertain Future with Kate O'Neil
With the state of the world, conflicts, extreme weather, gun violence, forest fires, etc. it can be hard to look into the future and imagine it all turning out okay. Do we have the tools to build a brighter future?
Listen in as I talk with Kate O’Neill, a tech humanist, and author of A Future So Bright to discuss strategic optimism, artificial intelligence, the future of jobs and how to prepare for an increasingly tech-driven future with her signature strategic optimism.
Drink of the week….The Future Freeze
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Julie Brown:
Kate O’Neil
Transcript
Whether it's reading tea leaves, staring into a crystal ball, or using tarot
Speaker:cards, humans have four centuries been curious about what the future holds.
Speaker:Today, large corporations, media outlets, event planners, all turn to futurists
Speaker:to provide insights and commentary on what the future will look like.
Speaker:Welcome to episode 1 45 of This Shit Works, the podcast dedicated to
Speaker:all things networking, relationship building, and business development.
Speaker:I'm your host, Julie Brown.
Speaker:Speaker, author and networking coach.
Speaker:And today I'm joined by Kate O'Neill, a tech humanist, and author of a Future
Speaker:So Bright, helping Humanity prepare for an increasingly tech driven future.
Speaker:And she does this with her signature, strategic optimism.
Speaker:Welcome to this Shit Works, your Weekly No Nonsense guide to networking your way
Speaker:to More friends, more adventures, and way more success with your host, Julie Brown.
Speaker:Here we go.
Speaker:To be honest with global warming, water, scarcity, wars and conflict, forest fires,
Speaker:earthquakes, tornadoes, an increasingly polarized population, bank failures, and
Speaker:all the other shit going on in the world.
Speaker:Sometimes it can be hard to look at the future and imagine it turning out all.
Speaker:Okay, well, the good news is that my guest today believes that the future doesn't
Speaker:exist yet, and that's okay because we have the tools to build a better future anyway.
Speaker:From strategic optimism to artificial intelligence to the future of jobs,
Speaker:we are going to get into it all.
Speaker:So without further ado, let's welcome Kate to the podcast.
Speaker:Thank you, Julie.
Speaker:Hey, first question, which I'm sure you get asked a lot.
Speaker:What is a tech humanist and how did you become one?
Speaker:Yeah, I, I do get asked that a lot and, uh, For me, tech humanism is just
Speaker:the natural place where someone who's interested in the better outcomes
Speaker:for people who is also working at the intersection with technology and you know,
Speaker:digital experiences and digital culture is interested in just kinda steering those.
Speaker:Tech driven experiences toward those better outcomes.
Speaker:So that's what, um, yeah.
Speaker:In my career, I've become one, as you, your second part of your question,
Speaker:by working in technology for over 25 years and always being the person who
Speaker:is agitating for people, the customer, the user, the guest, the patient, the
Speaker:whatever, the role a person is in, at the time that they interact with a business.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I've always been the person that's like, but what about the customer?
Speaker:One of your first roles in tech was with Netflix, right?
Speaker:Yeah, that was an early one.
Speaker:I I, uh, it was 99, 2000 or so when I joined.
Speaker:Uh, you can never remember exactly, but it was, I was one of the first
Speaker:hundred employees at Netflix.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So that's kind of bonkers.
Speaker:So this was when we were still mailing.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Oh yeah, DVDs.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's actually how I became acquainted with them is because I
Speaker:bought a DVD player and they were far enough along to have like inserts
Speaker:in the DVD v D player boxes within the region, within the Bay Area.
Speaker:And so I was living in the Bay Area, I bought a DVD player,
Speaker:I got this little insert.
Speaker:I was like, oh, cool.
Speaker:And so I started using Netflix as a customer.
Speaker:Oh, I loved what they were doing.
Speaker:I was a big fan of what they were doing.
Speaker:But at that time, And many people don't remember this far back with the
Speaker:service, and they weren't aware of it at this time, but at the time they
Speaker:were actually just renting one by one.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Just the way you would Yep.
Speaker:At like a blockbuster.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And they hadn't yet come up with the the subscription plan.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:All you can rent plan.
Speaker:And I got an email from them that asked me if I wanted to participate
Speaker:in a test of that program.
Speaker:And I did very much want to participate in that test.
Speaker:So I did it.
Speaker:I loved it.
Speaker:I was like, you are really onto something.
Speaker:And I sent them back my resume.
Speaker:I was just like, I don't know what you need, but here's what I can do.
Speaker:Oh my God, you know, I'm sort of a generalist in tech.
Speaker:I can do whatever.
Speaker:And so they created this role of content manager as the first content manager.
Speaker:Heading up a team of content producers, working closely with the editorial
Speaker:group, with the database group, the content production team, the, the, um,
Speaker:warehouse, the logistics and operations.
Speaker:So it was a really exciting time and a really exciting role.
Speaker:And, um, yeah, I got to do, I got to spearhead a lot of
Speaker:really fun initiatives too.
Speaker:I think I was the subscriber in 2002, so that was Oh yeah.
Speaker:Still when it was one disc.
Speaker:Yeah, before any sort of subscription and then they went to this hybrid
Speaker:where you got online and you got discs.
Speaker:You remember that?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Time.
Speaker:And then they sent out that email that was like, okay, now you
Speaker:have to pick one or the other.
Speaker:And everybody was all up in arms about like, what do you mean we don't get both?
Speaker:Not even realizing that pretty soon, like the whole mailing of discs was not gonna
Speaker:be something that anybody did anymore.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think I had like, I still had a D V D rental program for years
Speaker:and years after I was there and.
Speaker:Along with the streaming, like you're saying.
Speaker:And I remember at one point that I had had, who knows what DVD V, what movie
Speaker:it was, but I had had it probably for a year and a half, I think I had moved
Speaker:from Nashville to New York with it.
Speaker:Like I finally just gave up.
Speaker:I'm like, all right, I'm never watching this movie.
Speaker:Oh my God, I'm sending it back and I'm canceling my DVD program.
Speaker:Cuz obviously that's not happening.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:I love that you were one of the, I mean, Netflix is, So, I mean, talk
Speaker:about revolutionizing the way we watch not just wa consume cuz they were the
Speaker:first ones to, this is so off point, but I'm sorry, the, they were the first
Speaker:ones to do, like, we're just gonna release every episode all at once.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like they invented binging of shows.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's, uh, obviously well after my time there I was gone before, you
Speaker:know, streaming and original content and all that stuff and those, so
Speaker:further revolutions that they led.
Speaker:But yeah, I mean, I think what's so fascinating to me from my early time
Speaker:there is that a lot of the decisions that we made, a lot of the projects we were
Speaker:doing at that time, you know, 2000 era, were the kinds of things that needed to
Speaker:be done in order to clear the way or pave the way for a lot of the more, you know,
Speaker:a lot of the later innovations mm-hmm.
Speaker:That came.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, for example, when I joined the company and took over the content database,
Speaker:All the movies only had one genre as assigned to them or attached to them.
Speaker:And if you're a movie fan at all, listening out there, you're
Speaker:like, oh, that's a problem.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because you could watch an action movie or a comedy movie or a romance movie,
Speaker:but you could not watch a romantic comedy or an action comedy or whatever others.
Speaker:Interesting hybrid, right?
Speaker:And so, you know, it was obvious that that was gonna need to be aff fixed.
Speaker:I worked very closely with the, uh, database teams and the
Speaker:engineers and the editorial team.
Speaker:We basically broke the database down and rebuilt it like recoded in a way
Speaker:to say, you know, okay, movies can have multiple genre relationships and now.
Speaker:If you're a Netflix user, you know that when you go through your, your home,
Speaker:you know, your listing of movies, there are often these very weird, arcane,
Speaker:subtle kind of categories mm-hmm.
Speaker:That, that the movies are listed in.
Speaker:Like some of them for me are like political o tour cinema, like it's a
Speaker:really arcane niche kind of movie genre.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But I do love movies like that.
Speaker:And so what's happened is that they've been using machine learning, artificial
Speaker:intelligence for years to pay attention to the kinds of things that you watch.
Speaker:And I watch and everybody else listening to this, who uses Netflix
Speaker:watches, what do we have in common?
Speaker:You know, what are the, where are the places that we fall off in
Speaker:our subscriptions or whatever.
Speaker:And so they've used that not only to create better original content,
Speaker:which they have done brilliantly.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But they've also used it to refine the way that they merchandise and
Speaker:market movies within the listings.
Speaker:That wouldn't have been possible without 20 years ago.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Breaking down the database and rebuilding it the way that we did.
Speaker:So I think it is a really, actually a good on-topic entry into our, our
Speaker:discussion cuz I think it's, it's such a universal need for people to recognize
Speaker:that there are projects sitting in front of them right now that are.
Speaker:Coronary and tedious and difficult and they don't wanna tackle.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But if you try to think ahead 5, 10, 20 years, you're gonna
Speaker:wanna have that project done.
Speaker:There's gonna be no advancing and building new things into your life, into your
Speaker:business without tackling that ugly project that's sitting in front of you.
Speaker:Yeah, that actually is a great lesson.
Speaker:I think it actually.
Speaker:Kind of plays into my next question really well, which is you describing yourself
Speaker:often as a strategic optimist and Yeah.
Speaker:I mentioned in the intro it is hard sometimes to look at
Speaker:the future and look at it.
Speaker:Your book, a future is so bright and look at it and say, oh yes,
Speaker:good things are on the horizon.
Speaker:So, What is a so strategic optimist, so they seem actually
Speaker:almost at odds with each other.
Speaker:Cuz I don't feel like strategy and being an optimistic strategy is very pragmatic.
Speaker:And this is, this is the steps to do things and optimism is
Speaker:like it's all going to be okay.
Speaker:So how does strategy and optimism actually play together and work together?
Speaker:Yeah, so great question, question, and I think the way that I, I would
Speaker:like to tackle it is by backing up and saying, you know, when we think
Speaker:about the future, the way that we.
Speaker:Culturally have been trained and conditioned to talk and think
Speaker:about the future is only two ways.
Speaker:We either talk about dystopia or we talk about utopia.
Speaker:And neither of those really serves us very well.
Speaker:We all know that utopia really isn't on the table like nobody really expects.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:All the decisions to be made so perfectly that we're living in a,
Speaker:you know, very perfect society.
Speaker:But I think nobody really expects dystopia fully either.
Speaker:Or if they do, it's, it's not a very pragmatic or useful
Speaker:way to think about the future.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because then that means that everything you're reading about in the news, all the.
Speaker:Scientific breakthroughs, all the tech technological advances, all
Speaker:you're thinking is like, great.
Speaker:How bad is this gonna be?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Which is a terrible way to think about the future.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I think what, for me, what dystopia versus Utopia does for us is that
Speaker:it's supposed to shine a light on.
Speaker:What we think are the worst things that could happen and what we think
Speaker:are the best things that could happen.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And what I tried to do with strategic optimism is to say, look,
Speaker:we can still use that utility.
Speaker:Like we don't need those two lenses.
Speaker:Those two lenses are useless to us because they're too dichotomized.
Speaker:They're too, mm-hmm.
Speaker:They're too, you know, either or.
Speaker:But if we say, Strategic optimism is about letting us look at what we could
Speaker:do, what would be the best possible outcomes, and how do we realistically
Speaker:avoid the worst case scenarios that might stop us from getting there.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So how do we build a strategy that actually gets us to the
Speaker:best place we'd like to get to?
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:I do also myself, live in a very black and white A or B.
Speaker:Like my world is very bifurcated into good and bad.
Speaker:Yes and no.
Speaker:That's how I live.
Speaker:It's a fault of my own that I, that I discovered.
Speaker:And I realized a number of years ago in therapy, which, which is where we
Speaker:discover all virtual shortcomings.
Speaker:And I've been trying, I've been trying to be more of a, a middle ground.
Speaker:There is a gray, it's not just black and white.
Speaker:So I fall into that.
Speaker:It's all gonna suck.
Speaker:It's all gonna be great playground.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think it's not, it's not choosing one or the other.
Speaker:It's really about the integration of those ideas.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's about saying, you know, if we were to say dystopia versus utopia,
Speaker:like what are we living in now?
Speaker:I don't think anybody would unilaterally say that what we're
Speaker:living in is a utopia For sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it, I don't think anybody would say it's dystopia either.
Speaker:So it clearly.
Speaker:Is has elements of both.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Like there are ways in which things are really off the rails, and
Speaker:you listed a bunch of them right.
Speaker:In the, in, in the intro.
Speaker:Um, but there are ways in which we have made things better for society.
Speaker:There are ways in which, you know, people are better educated today
Speaker:than they were in decades past.
Speaker:They're, they have better opportunities, you know?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:We're feeding more people and getting water to more people, clean water.
Speaker:There are plenty of things that have improved in the world
Speaker:and we have a long way to go.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it's.
Speaker:Trying to recognize the boldness of the reality of that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I don't think that that precludes, you know, whatever way
Speaker:you need to process the world is how you need to process the world.
Speaker:I think for me, what the value and the meaning of strategic optimism and of the,
Speaker:of future so bright in general is not that things are going to be perfect or
Speaker:that, you know, we we're trying to avoid.
Speaker:Apocalypse.
Speaker:We are trying to avoid apocalypse, by the way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But, but we're doing that by being very realistic about the real world risks
Speaker:and harms that we know could happen.
Speaker:And by also saying, look, what we'd love to see is this, like the
Speaker:best thing that could happen is.
Speaker:We use technology to solve a lot of human problems at scale.
Speaker:We get more resources to people.
Speaker:We, we help girls get better educated in places in the world where they can't.
Speaker:We, we, like, we lift people up out of poverty, we get plastics out of the ocean.
Speaker:Like if we could solve all those problems and, and really technology
Speaker:does have a lot to do with solving a lot of those problems.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Then that would be the best case possible.
Speaker:But we also know that the technologies that could get us there could
Speaker:also go wildly off the rails.
Speaker:So we need a strategy to prevent us from having that happen while we move
Speaker:ourselves toward the best outcomes.
Speaker:I think you answered my next question.
Speaker:So you, you know, your book is a Future So Bright and it's about
Speaker:how we shape a better future.
Speaker:And you, you say that we already have the tools to shape that better future.
Speaker:Are we starting from the right spot?
Speaker:Are we looking at the tools we have and saying, okay,
Speaker:how do we use these for good?
Speaker:Are we looking at it in a, in a way in which we are avoiding
Speaker:catastrophe in the future?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I think you're asking a really important question and I.
Speaker:One of the points that I often make when I advise executives is, you
Speaker:know, so often the way CEOs and other executives think about digital
Speaker:transformation, about the technology they need to embrace in their business
Speaker:is by starting with the technology, and they start, they, they, they will.
Speaker:I, I remember years and years ago in jobs that I have had before that I would
Speaker:come into my desk and there would be like a newspaper clipping on my desk
Speaker:with a little post-it note stuck to it.
Speaker:And it might be like a newspaper article about cloud technology.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And the director might have written a little post-it note that
Speaker:said, what's our cloud strategy?
Speaker:Come see me.
Speaker:I'm like, oh no.
Speaker:It's gonna be one of those days.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But that so often is where executives start from.
Speaker:It's like, oh, AI is all in the news chat.
Speaker:G p t, what's our chat G p T strategy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's actually a terrible way to approach these problems.
Speaker:What we need to be doing is starting from the, the integrity of the business.
Speaker:You know, what is the business trying to do?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:What does it exist to do and what, what problem does it try to solve at scale?
Speaker:And the scale part is where the, the clue that you're gonna bring
Speaker:emerging technology into it.
Speaker:You're gonna bring automation or AI into it.
Speaker:In some way that's gonna help you reach that scale.
Speaker:But you have to start with something that actually means something to you.
Speaker:Like what problem is it that you know someone needs solved and that
Speaker:you are in a position to solve?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And then from the alignment of what it is you're trying to do and what people
Speaker:in the world are trying to accomplish.
Speaker:You can then start to say, all right, we could actually solve that faster,
Speaker:more efficiently, more effectively, and at more at scale if we throw
Speaker:cloud at it, or AI at it or whatever.
Speaker:But you can't start from cloud or chat G P T or whatever.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I mean, if you can do that to experiment, but you can't do that to come up with a
Speaker:really robust and meaningful strategy.
Speaker:So I think to get back to the way the question that you asked, I think.
Speaker:When I think about it, you know, we, in 2 20 19, I was at the United Nations COP 25
Speaker:Climate Change Summit and I led a panel on using AI to fight climate change.
Speaker:And I think we've been at a place where we've had for years the opportunity
Speaker:to think about AI and other emerging technologies and how it could fight
Speaker:climate change or, you know, do any of the other things that I mentioned.
Speaker:You know, help get plastics out of the ocean or use.
Speaker:Solar panels more effectively or things like that.
Speaker:We just have to be very intentional about the problems we're actually trying
Speaker:to solve, and using the technology to do that using whatever tools.
Speaker:It doesn't even have to be technology, you know, calling each other on the
Speaker:phone if that's what it takes, you know?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Or just being.
Speaker:Very intentional about the kinds of solutions we deploy.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so I think I would imagine that for many of the people who listen to your
Speaker:show, you know, there, I would guess that many of your audience members are
Speaker:not deeply in technology, are not people who are designing AI tools or solutions.
Speaker:And that's fine, but I think it still applies to go back and say, look,
Speaker:there's some business that you're in, whether you're a freelancer or an
Speaker:entrepreneur or you know, the c e o of a very large corporation, you are
Speaker:trying to solve a problem for somebody and you need to know what that problem
Speaker:is and how to articulate it really well and how you're gonna solve it at scale.
Speaker:That's where you start bringing the technology into the discussion.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because you did bring up.
Speaker:Ai and we are talking about my kind of listener.
Speaker:I think my listener might be looking at the job climate and saying, okay, there
Speaker:are a lot of layoffs in the tech industry.
Speaker:There's right now ripple repercussions through the banking industry.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:People are gonna be laid off, people are gonna lose their jobs.
Speaker:There's going to be downsizing.
Speaker:I think when we talk about AI and the job market, I think that there is a lot
Speaker:of confusion about how AI and technology is affecting jobs and job creation and
Speaker:are actually jobs, you know, are jobs that humans would do being done by ai,
Speaker:robots and, and other tech solutions.
Speaker:What are the ramifications in the job market with.
Speaker:How much AI is growing right now.
Speaker:So I think there's a couple of points there.
Speaker:One is this certainly does stand to change the job market.
Speaker:What you mentioned about layoffs happening in the tax sector, for
Speaker:example, are not necessarily because of AI there, because of the ambitious
Speaker:growth over the last few years, you know, responding to the pandemic.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I think what we're seeing is.
Speaker:A lot of various economic signals, they don't necessarily pertain to ai.
Speaker:It just so happens that AI is having a moment.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:As we see that play out.
Speaker:But also I think what AI is teaching us in this moment, you know, with with the
Speaker:rise of chat G B T and everybody kind of having a field day with generative
Speaker:ai, is that we know that there are going to be managers and executives,
Speaker:leaders who are going to be very.
Speaker:Aggressive about starting to replace jobs where they can.
Speaker:So we saw this already play out in newsrooms.
Speaker:Buzzfeed cnet, for example, started laying off reporters and using
Speaker:chat G P T to generate stories.
Speaker:They rushed it and CNET has already had to print an embarrassing retraction that
Speaker:they got their story completely wrong.
Speaker:They trusted AI and they should not have trusted ai.
Speaker:AI is fantastic.
Speaker:You know, chat, b t and other generative AI tools are fantastic as a writing
Speaker:tool, as something that mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, speeds you along and helps you, you know, make some progress.
Speaker:I usually, I have been using them for several years and they get me through
Speaker:writer's block, like nobody's business.
Speaker:Like if I hit a wall, I've like written all I need to, to write
Speaker:for the moment, and I'm like, what am I trying to say next?
Speaker:It's really helpful to be able to use.
Speaker:AI and say, try writing the next bit.
Speaker:And oftentimes it won't have written what I meant to write.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But sometimes knowing what you don't wanna say is as useful as
Speaker:knowing what you do wanna say.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So all of that to say, I think that there are ways that we're
Speaker:going to see AI used alongside human jobs and human productivity.
Speaker:And I think we're gonna see plenty of overeager managers and leaders who are
Speaker:going to start laying off people way too ambitiously, way too prematurely.
Speaker:So all of that is happening at the same time, and it's gonna make
Speaker:it really hard to read the tea leaves, as you said in the mm-hmm.
Speaker:The upfront, the intro.
Speaker:I think we're gonna probably have a tendency to read the layoffs and read
Speaker:the overeager movements as the trend instead of seeing it as a trend that's
Speaker:happening alongside the fact that you and I and everybody else listening
Speaker:to this program should be educating ourselves on how to use these tools
Speaker:because, At the moment, it isn't robots or machines that are taking human jobs.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's humans who know how to use technology, who are taking human jobs.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So you are, are, the listener are in a much better place.
Speaker:If you know how to use these tools effectively, then you would be if you did
Speaker:not, if you, if you swore them off and said, I'm never gonna touch those tools.
Speaker:I think that's a great segue.
Speaker:So somebody's listening to you and they're like, wait a minute, I'm sorry.
Speaker:Did she just say she uses something to get through writer's block?
Speaker:I often don't know what to say.
Speaker:I often need answers to questions.
Speaker:How is this different than just saying, going into the Google machine?
Speaker:How can people start using these tools?
Speaker:Yeah, so I think a lot of people have experimented already with chat, G P T, and
Speaker:there's a lot of other AI tools out there.
Speaker:I, I use a tool called Jasper, which is an AI writing tool that's geared toward
Speaker:online marketing and SEO kind of content.
Speaker:But that's just one variation.
Speaker:Also, if you have ever used the tool notion, it's like a
Speaker:workspace, collaborative workspace.
Speaker:I use it with my remote teams.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:To work on projects and notion has built into it.
Speaker:An AI function that at any point within a document, say you and I were collaborating
Speaker:on notes for this podcast episode and you know, just like we might do in
Speaker:sort of a, a Google Doc or something.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:We might be working together side by side on that and we might go
Speaker:like, Hey, you know, it'd be really handy if the AI would just suggest
Speaker:for us a list of bullet points for some of the topics we might cover.
Speaker:And again, some of 'em are gonna be terrible.
Speaker:You're gonna throw them out right away.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But it might get you thinking and it might break the ice to where it's like,
Speaker:oh yeah, well let's throw the one about.
Speaker:I don't know, internet of things away, because nobody's really
Speaker:talking about that right now.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But the one about chat, G P T, let's absolutely keep in there.
Speaker:In fact, now that you've mentioned it, it reminds me that I should
Speaker:put in there something about using chat G P T for writer's block.
Speaker:You know, that's the kind of mm-hmm.
Speaker:Provocation that's gonna keep things flowing and make us more productive.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So it's knowing how to use these tools.
Speaker:In the right proportion and in the right place and process.
Speaker:Not having them replace your writing process, for example.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And not having them replace writers.
Speaker:At the moment, we're just not there yet.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I hope that we don't get there anytime soon, but I think realistically,
Speaker:we are eventually going to see an awful lot of jobs displaced and
Speaker:replaced by the capabilities that AI brings about, but there's not.
Speaker:In our lifetimes, it's not likely that we're going to see all
Speaker:jobs displaced by technology.
Speaker:We're going to see a lot of jobs created that are new jobs we would never
Speaker:have imagined were possible before.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And all of those are going to take shape around the emerging technologies.
Speaker:And to be honest, the emerging opportunities of things like climate
Speaker:change, what we need to do to be resilient and adaptable as climate
Speaker:changes is an intersection with.
Speaker:What emerging technology is gonna do for us.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I think we're, we're at a place where we need to line those
Speaker:questions up in our mind and decide what am I passionate about?
Speaker:What should I really be going after right now?
Speaker:And how should I be building my network?
Speaker:I know that's a really common topic for your discussion here.
Speaker:How should I be, who should I be connecting with?
Speaker:How should I be building my opportunities in front of me to align with what I think.
Speaker:We are going to be investing in.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:We're going to be investing in climate change solutions.
Speaker:We're going to be investing further into AI and, and emerging technology.
Speaker:Those things are a sure bet.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I think it's a great opportunity for people to be flexible with how they think,
Speaker:what kinds of solutions they feel like they're offering into the world, and how
Speaker:to get themselves into the right spot.
Speaker:So think of AI more not as the movie Megan, have you heard that Megan yet?
Speaker:I have not seen that movie, but I do know what it's about.
Speaker:And I think some people think of AI like that.
Speaker:That that's what where we're heading towards and using it as that it
Speaker:could be a force for good, like it is, we're already using it.
Speaker:I think there's instances in people's lives where they're using
Speaker:AI and they don't even know it.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It's just become part of our, our world and we're used to it,
Speaker:so we're not identifying it as artificial intelligence because
Speaker:we're not thinking about it in that.
Speaker:Wording or that vein?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Whenever you've had Amazon or any other retailer make suggestions to
Speaker:you based on what you just bought.
Speaker:It's using algorithmic data, you know, algorithmic processes,
Speaker:and that's basically the predecessor to AI in, in function.
Speaker:If you've had Netflix, make recommendations, if you've had
Speaker:Spotify, make recommendations.
Speaker:Those are all forms of ai.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so it's been part of our lives for years.
Speaker:In fact, I don't know if you've used it, but Spotify has a new feature called DJ.
Speaker:No, and it, yeah, it's a pretty cool thing.
Speaker:So if you've been using Spotify for a while, you're probably familiar with
Speaker:the ability to create playlists off of a song or an artist or whatever.
Speaker:This takes it a step farther.
Speaker:This is actually using an AI generated voice that's coded to sound kind of
Speaker:like a DJ who's got sort of the sonic elements of someone you would expect
Speaker:to sound like a DJ and is narrating in between a couple of sets of.
Speaker:Songs.
Speaker:So it might play oh, three or four songs in a certain genre or a certain mood
Speaker:or a vibe or whatever, and then say, wrapping that up with whoever, Amy Mann.
Speaker:And now we're heading into a vibe that's more about songs you
Speaker:were listening to last year, but haven't been listening to as much.
Speaker:And it's pretty amazing, honestly.
Speaker:Where do you find it on the app?
Speaker:Does every, I have the paid version, so.
Speaker:It might be something they're rolling out in testing to.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Uh, only a few users, but if you've got it, you would find it in just kind of
Speaker:the features on your home page there.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:It should be there somewhere and it just says dj, but yeah, if you find it
Speaker:and you play with it, I'll look for it.
Speaker:Yeah, I'll look for it.
Speaker:So, super interesting feature.
Speaker:And there you go.
Speaker:That's ai.
Speaker:It's not, you know, it's not gonna kill us.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I do think you could certainly get into philosophical arguments about, Is it
Speaker:better for us to hear our own tailored version of a music playlist versus having
Speaker:some kind of common vocabulary of Sure.
Speaker:Like songs that we all hear on a radio station, but we're
Speaker:sort of past that argument now.
Speaker:Like we've, we've all been having very personalized content experiences for
Speaker:years now, so we're down that road.
Speaker:This is at least adding a delightful experience to it.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:It does sound fun.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And that's what I wanted.
Speaker:I wanted to have sort of an everyday example of, Of where this is already a
Speaker:part of our life and, and I think we would be foolish to not expect it to grow and
Speaker:have its impacts on our lives increase.
Speaker:And so like you said, how do we now begin to learn this technology integrated
Speaker:into our lives, become proficient at the technology so that we aren't
Speaker:outdated by the technology ourselves.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's not like, I don't think.
Speaker:Your listeners have to become programmers, developers.
Speaker:You know, it's not, that's not the issue.
Speaker:The issue is to just not be scared of the technology.
Speaker:To not be foreign to it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:To not avoid it, but instead to be curious and seek out tools that are
Speaker:available, like the writing tools I've mentioned, or, you know, chat gpt
Speaker:is, uh, very available to everybody.
Speaker:Or if you haven't already played with generative AI visual programs like Dolly.
Speaker:And those sorts of things, those are really interesting to play with, but the
Speaker:idea that our jobs are going to be more about having an idea and trying to get
Speaker:technology involved in the process so that it can do it efficiently, so that we can
Speaker:figure out, all right, the workflow of.
Speaker:Me having an idea to refining it, to having a product that I can publish or
Speaker:share or make money off of, or whatever looks like X, Y, Z now, but it needs to
Speaker:look like x do.technology dot, dot dot z.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, and that process is gonna be much more streamlined as time
Speaker:goes on, because we're going to be able to increasingly automate
Speaker:it and bring more data into the process that makes it more refined.
Speaker:And more relevant.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But it, it looks daunting initially because I think these
Speaker:are just unfamiliar processes.
Speaker:So I think, yeah, it's all about having the curiosity and the willingness to go
Speaker:seek out these tools and be okay with not knowing them very well at first.
Speaker:But you're, you're not knowing them very well on your own time as opposed to not
Speaker:knowing them very well on some, in a job context where it's going to cost you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So aside from.
Speaker:Becoming proficient and curious and comfortable with ai, and if the
Speaker:future is not prescribed, as you say, the future is not prescribed.
Speaker:Besides that one tip, what is the best piece of advice for the listeners as we
Speaker:head towards a future that is unknown?
Speaker:It may be a future so bright, but it is unknown.
Speaker:So what is your best piece of advice?
Speaker:Yeah, I think.
Speaker:For what it's worth, A future.
Speaker:So bright is the title refers to the future that could be right.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It could be bright if we make the right choices.
Speaker:So the best piece of advice, I think, is to have this mindset that
Speaker:things are not necessarily within our control, but we do affect things.
Speaker:We do have an impact on the outcomes of tomorrow.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:The actions and decisions that we take today very much shape the future.
Speaker:So to, I think to feel empowered for people to feel not helpless and not out
Speaker:of control and not, you know, like things are moving in a bad, bad direction.
Speaker:Things are moving in a direction, and we actually have a chance to make an
Speaker:impact on what direction that goes.
Speaker:And so I think along with that, the sort of corollary to that, to tie back
Speaker:into what we've been talking about is I think taking a, an attitude.
Speaker:Of lifelong learning is really, really relevant here.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:It isn't just about learning AI tools, it's about the fact that we're going
Speaker:to be constantly faced with new things we've not encountered before, and the
Speaker:world is just changing awfully fast.
Speaker:And there are a lot of variables in play.
Speaker:Like we talked about the, um, geopolitical factors, the
Speaker:economic upheaval, the mm-hmm.
Speaker:Climate change, the, you know, we've got misinformation and
Speaker:disinformation issues going on.
Speaker:We've got privacy and cybersecurity issues.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And that's in addition to the emerging technology, you know, AI, automation,
Speaker:future of jobs, all of those kinds of things that are very much up in the
Speaker:air, but, I think the more we take an attitude that we're just absorbing,
Speaker:we're just learning and we're connecting dots, and we're figuring out how are
Speaker:we gonna take this new information and make intentional choices with it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:How are we going to lay out the next set of decisions that start shaping
Speaker:what tomorrow should look like?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:As long as we don't kind of have a sense that.
Speaker:Disaster is imminent, that we're, we're only headed for dystopian outcomes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I think we stand a really good chance of bringing something very strong and
Speaker:positive to the years ahead of us.
Speaker:Kate, if people wanna learn more about you l I mean, you're on, you're
Speaker:on the news, you're traveling the world, you're working with major
Speaker:corporations, but if they wanna learn more about you and your work, where's
Speaker:the best place for them to find you?
Speaker:My company, KO Insights is@koinsights.com, and there's a lot of information
Speaker:about me and my work there.
Speaker:They can also get links there to things like LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook and
Speaker:all the places where I sometimes hang out.
Speaker:I used to say it was always Twitter.
Speaker:Uh, these days obviously things have, things have shaken up
Speaker:a bit over there, so yeah.
Speaker:I'm losing my blue check mark in a couple of days and I'm sad
Speaker:about it, but we'll move on.
Speaker:We'll move on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, Kate, thank you so much.
Speaker:I really appreciate it.
Speaker:I didn't understand everything, but I'm glad we had this conversation.
Speaker:Oh, I think it's fantastic that we had this conversation.
Speaker:Thank you so much, and I hope that if your listeners are confused or
Speaker:curious or would like to have more information, that they will reach out.
Speaker:You're more than welcome to do so.
Speaker:I, I'd encourage it.
Speaker:I'd love to hear what intrigues you and what you, what you wanna know more about.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:I'll put links to all that in the show notes.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Thanks.
Speaker:Listen, I'm not that tech savvy and I'm not a futurist.
Speaker:I know shit about artificial intelligence.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Like I know zero shit about artificial intelligence and I'm
Speaker:not that much of an optimist.
Speaker:So if some of this interview was Greek to you, no, it was for me as well.
Speaker:As someone who doesn't always look at the glass as half full, I do understand
Speaker:that it can be hard to look at the state of our world today and not imagine
Speaker:it all going to fit, but like Kate said, the future doesn't exist yet.
Speaker:We still get to define it and create it, and yes, we do have the tools to build
Speaker:a brighter future that we have to choose to use those tools in the right way.
Speaker:I'm gonna put links to Kate's website in the show notes, but.
Speaker:Literally just Google her name, Kate O'Neil, and your Google Feed will be
Speaker:filled with her appearances on news and major corporate stages, as well
Speaker:as links to her books and articles.
Speaker:We just scratched the surface of Kate's expertise, like we didn't even scratch
Speaker:the surface, like, let's be honest.
Speaker:So I encourage you to learn more about her and her work and her research.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Onto the drink of the week, which is, of course it is.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:It's aptly named.
Speaker:It is called The Future Freeze.
Speaker:Which seems odd to me because with all the global warming happening, I don't
Speaker:think we are headed to another Ice age, more of a hot arid drought streak climate.
Speaker:But anyways, I couldn't find that drink.
Speaker:Here's what you're gonna need.
Speaker:Three tablespoons of vodka, one tablespoon of blue ki So
Speaker:why are these in tablespoons?
Speaker:Anyways, I.
Speaker:One teaspoon of lemon juice, you know, freshly squeezed and half a cup of Sprite.
Speaker:Place the vodka, kiso and lemon juice and a cocktail shaker filled with ice.
Speaker:Shake well and pour into a serving glass.
Speaker:Talk with Sprite and give it a gentle swirl.
Speaker:Alright, friends, that's all for this week.
Speaker:Listen, if you haven't signed up for my upcoming webinar, from Unread to Riveting,
Speaker:how to email Cold Leads Without Being a Hot Mess with the amazing Terry Trio.
Speaker:Coming up next week on May 24th, click the link in the show notes to sign up.
Speaker:It's going to be just a fantastic 90 minutes that will change the way you
Speaker:think about and approach the cold email so that you can start more
Speaker:meaningful and productive conversations with the people you wanna reach.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:If you want more Julie Brown, you can find my book.
Speaker:This shit works on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
Speaker:You can find me on LinkedIn at Julie Brown bd.
Speaker:Just let me know where you found me.
Speaker:You can, uh, find me on the Instagram at Julie Brown underscore bd, or you
Speaker:can just pop on over to my website.
Speaker:Julie Brown bd.com.
Speaker:Until next week, cheers.
Speaker:Hey, thanks for taking the time to listen.
Speaker:Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss a tip.
Speaker:And remember, you can unapologetically be who you authentically are
Speaker:and still be wildly successful.
Speaker:That's a fact.
