Episode 70

Using Enneagram Personality Types to Uncover Your Strengths with Nicole Saunders

Published on: 8th December, 2021

We’ve all heard of the Meyers Briggs personality test, you’ve probably taken that test a few times over the course of your career - but have you ever taken an Enneagram test to find out your personality number. The Enneagram shows a range of healthy to unhealthy behaviors that each of the 9 personality types might demonstrate unconsciously. The enneagram number offers a foundation to have a discussion about who we are, why we do the things we do, why we react to things a certain way. Listen in to my discussion with Enneagram coach Nicole Saunders as she breaks down the 9 personality types and how we can use the power of the numbers in our relationships and our careers.

Drink of the Week: No. 8 Cocktail

https://www.seriouseats.com/no-8-cocktail-whitehall-kings-ginger-mezcal-paloma-recipe

This episode is sponsored by Nickerson, a full-service branding, marketing, and PR and communications agency with team members in Boston, LA, Miami, and NYC. https://nickersoncos.com/

Julie Brown:

Website- ​https://juliebrownbd.com/

Instagram- ​https://www.instagram.com/juliebrown_bd/

LinkedIn- ​https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-brown-b6942817/

Youtube- ​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIwWVdayM2mYXzR9JNLJ55Q

Facebook- ​https://www.facebook.com/juliebrownbd/

Nicole Saunders

https://saunderssays.com/

Transcript
Julie:

We've all heard of the Myers-Briggs personality test.

Julie:

You've probably taken that test a few times over the course of

Julie:

your schooling and your career.

Julie:

But have you ever taken an Enneagram test to find out your personality?

Julie:

Number.

Julie:

Welcome to episode 70 of this shit works.

Julie:

I am your host, Julie Brown.

Julie:

And today I am joined by Nicole Saunders to discuss using any grams for business.

Julie:

And self-awareness.

Julie:

This episode is sponsored by Nickerson.

Julie:

A full service, branding, marketing PR and communications agency.

Julie:

With team members in Boston.

Julie:

LA.

Julie:

Miami and New York city.

Julie:

Visit them.

Julie:

At Nickerson C O S.

Julie:

Dot com.

Julie:

I won't lie.

Julie:

Before researching this podcast, I knew nothing about Enneagrams and now.

Julie:

After doing the research on this podcast, I know.

Julie:

Next to nothing about any grams, except that there are nine personality types.

Julie:

In preparation for my conversation with Nicole, I purchased an online

Julie:

Enneagram test, which consisted of 144 pairs of statements.

Julie:

For each pair of statements, you pick the one that most reflects your personality.

Julie:

Some were super easy to answer.

Julie:

I was like, yep.

Julie:

That's me a hundred percent.

Julie:

But some other ones I felt could go either way.

Julie:

And I struggled to pick the one that described me the most.

Julie:

And that was a little frustrating.

Julie:

After I answered the 144 questions.

Julie:

My test results were emailed to me in an eight page document.

Julie:

Which left me with more questions.

Julie:

Then I started with it's like, when you, get your yearly blood work done and

Julie:

the lab sends you back a print out and you look at it and you're like, well,

Julie:

I guess my hemoglobin numbers are good.

Julie:

And Michael Lester all is within acceptable parameters.

Julie:

My iron's looking pretty healthy as well.

Julie:

The numbers are there, but they don't really mean anything

Julie:

to you or at least to me.

Julie:

That is what getting my Enneagram type indicator back was like for me.

Julie:

Apparently within these results lies, powerful information.

Julie:

Corporations small businesses and non-profits around the world are

Julie:

using the Enneagram as a breakthrough approach for leadership development

Julie:

team, building communication skills and emotional intelligence.

Julie:

The ne Ram shows a range of healthy to unhealthy behaviors that each personality

Julie:

type might demonstrate unconsciously.

Julie:

This podcast is all about networking.

Julie:

And knowing your Enneagram can help improve your people

Julie:

skills among other things.

Julie:

This is why I needed to talk to a professional about this.

Julie:

Someone who could break this all down for us.

Julie:

And turn Nicole Saunders, who is a business coach who helps people grow

Julie:

their businesses by tapping into their Enneagram personality type.

Julie:

And it's strengths.

Julie:

. Nicole, welcome to the.

Nicole:

Oh, my God.

Nicole:

That was the best.

Nicole:

I'm like over here, cracking up.

Nicole:

I'm like, I've never heard anybody introduce the.

Nicole:

Enneagram in this way, nor compare it to blood work.

Nicole:

I'm like dying.

Nicole:

This is So far.

Nicole:

And I'm like, no, I had your results in advance.

Nicole:

And I'm like, you know, you're reading that.

Nicole:

I'm like, yup, definitely an eight.

Nicole:

Like I'm also an eight.

Nicole:

So I'm like, I'm just like, this is too funny, too funny.

Julie:

So I'm literally walking into unchartered territory here, and so

Julie:

I'm assuming that for a number of the people who are listening to this

Julie:

podcast, they're all like any of who can you just sort of, what is this

Julie:

Enneagram personality type thing?

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So at the end of the day, it's basically a way to understand the why.

Nicole:

Behind the things that you do.

Nicole:

So why do you act this way?

Nicole:

Why do you come across this way?

Nicole:

Why do people think, for us eight, why do people think we're intimidating and bossy?

Nicole:

Well, and I, we just are that way naturally.

Nicole:

So.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So it's a good way to understand yourself.

Nicole:

And also others.

Nicole:

It's a really good tool for building empathy.

Nicole:

And, there are so many pieces of the Enneagram.

Nicole:

It is so deep.

Nicole:

I'll, I'll try not to go too in depth with it.

Nicole:

We'll try to keep it more basic level,

Julie:

So there's there's nine types is this is like a basic question.

Julie:

Cause I don't know because I got mine back.

Julie:

So for the listeners, I'm an eight, we'll get into that later.

Julie:

The eight is called the challenger and I immediately, it was like for

Julie:

one fucking time in my life, could I just please be like the good person,

Julie:

the person who understands like.

Julie:

And so immediately I was like, oh, eight is probably the worst number.

Julie:

It is one type better than the others.

Nicole:

N no, no, they're all equal playing field.

Nicole:

Right.

Nicole:

So, and, and the funny thing is, I think.

Nicole:

And I talk about this quite a bit is in entrepreneurship.

Nicole:

I think people are like, oh, I need to be a three because that's the best

Nicole:

type, but that's not necessarily true.

Nicole:

I think a lot of people think one threes are best, but two that,

Nicole:

because I'm an entrepreneur and I'm driven and I'll work really hard.

Nicole:

And I'm a workaholic because I like, I.

Nicole:

That I'm a three, but that's not always the case.

Nicole:

We could have similar behaviors.

Nicole:

I'm like eights and threes could have similar behaviors as to why

Nicole:

we're really driven and wildly take fast action and want to work hard.

Nicole:

But.

Nicole:

Eight.

Nicole:

So want to work hard because we don't want to be controlled.

Nicole:

So we all have these drivers behind these core fears, core desires behind the why.

Nicole:

so with eights it's we don't want to be controlled.

Nicole:

We want to be in charge of our own destiny, Tom, whatever.

Nicole:

And So there is no better or worse type.

Nicole:

There's not one that, oh, that's the best type.

Nicole:

We all want to be like this or one that's like it is, I do not want to

Nicole:

be like that type now, personally.

Nicole:

And I probably shouldn't say this, but there are.

Nicole:

Is that when I first heard about them, I was like, oh my God, that is not me.

Nicole:

I would not want to be that like,

Julie:

let's do let's break down the types.

Julie:

So there's nine.

Julie:

So let's start with all right.

Julie:

So type one is called the reformer.

Julie:

What is the reformer?

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So each type has different names and depending on which I'm, which

Nicole:

school of thought you're looking at, they may have different ones.

Nicole:

So.

Nicole:

I may call it a different name.

Nicole:

So the one could be the perfectionist or the reformer.

Nicole:

, and so those are their core desire is they want to be good.

Nicole:

They don't want to be wrong or evil, so they are chasing things to be good.

Nicole:

Things can be black or white for them.

Nicole:

Like there's not, it's hard for them to learn this middle ground thing.

Nicole:

So, and, and I will say, let me preface this too, with I'm

Nicole:

giving you general information.

Nicole:

Now, there are some people that may be really healthy.

Nicole:

I don't do that.

Nicole:

Or people that are like, oh my gosh.

Nicole:

I'm so like, that's me.

Nicole:

It's just because they don't understand, like, you just don't have that.

Nicole:

Self-awareness, haven't went through a growth process yet.

Nicole:

So these are generalized things.

Nicole:

Yeah, yeah,

Julie:

Okay.

Julie:

So we've the reform one, the reformer now on, on the test that I took, I'll

Julie:

give the names at the test that I, took, and then you can say if there's

Julie:

a different imprint to, is the helper.

Nicole:

Yep.

Nicole:

So two is the helper or also known as the giver and they want to be loved and

Nicole:

accepted and they fear being unwanted.

Nicole:

So a lot of times they're doing things because they want love in return.

Nicole:

So I'm going to do this for you.

Nicole:

So you'll love me.

Julie:

Okay.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So, yeah, Right.

Nicole:

Like an a is probably like, oh, that is not me.

Nicole:

I do not do things because I want people to love me.

Nicole:

I don't care if you like me or not.

Julie:

Right.

Julie:

Yes.

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

The three is now this was what I was upset about.

Julie:

I looked at the names before I, before I did, and I was like, I'm

Julie:

definitely going to be a three because the three, and you mentioned it.

Julie:

Everybody wants to be a three.

Julie:

The three is called the achiever.

Nicole:

Yeah, and they can also be known as the performer.

Nicole:

So the achiever.

Nicole:

what happens is they want to be valued and essentially loved

Nicole:

because of what they accomplish.

Nicole:

So again, they may be doing what we're doing.

Nicole:

You know, they may be an entrepreneur, but they're doing it because

Nicole:

they want people to see their achievements, their accomplishments,

Nicole:

and that's how they gain love.

Nicole:

So they fear being worthless and I am.

Nicole:

This also comes from your childhood.

Nicole:

So a lot of this was how you were raised, your parents or guardians

Nicole:

or whoever your caretaker was and it developed your defense mechanisms.

Nicole:

So that way, this is what happens now as an adult, you can see this playing out.

Julie:

sure.

Julie:

A number for the individualist.

Julie:

That's what it is on my.

Nicole:

Yup.

Nicole:

Yup.

Nicole:

And they can be called individualist or the romantic.

Nicole:

And so they want to have this unique significance.

Nicole:

They want to create this identity and they fear not being significant.

Nicole:

So, and I, for the longest time I thought I was a four, but when I

Nicole:

looked at the childhood grow stuff, I realized I was an eight and I'll

Nicole:

look back and I'm like, Oh, my gosh.

Nicole:

I'm totally an a, I can't believe I didn't see these signs before,

Nicole:

but, um, fours just have this core, like, what am I missing?

Nicole:

What does everybody else have that I don't have?

Nicole:

So they constantly think they're missing something.

Julie:

Oh, okay.

Julie:

Uh, moving on to number five, the investigator.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So the investigator or the observer is type five and they want to be competent.

Nicole:

So, and fives can sometimes miss type threes as well, but that what

Nicole:

they're doing is learning this stuff.

Nicole:

So they know things and they don't appear as useless or Dom

Nicole:

or whatever term you want to use.

Nicole:

I'm so they are constantly trying.

Nicole:

Resources, especially knowledge.

Nicole:

Um, yeah.

Nicole:

So that's the observer or the investigator.

Julie:

Okay.

Julie:

Number six, the loyal.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So this type, um, the loyalist or the loyal.

Nicole:

skeptic, sometimes I think of them as the devil's advocate, just

Nicole:

because they ask so many questions.

Nicole:

If you're asking a lot of questions and you're like trying to make sure

Nicole:

that everything's really secure and safe, um, you might be a type six.

Nicole:

So their desire is to have that security and that support system.

Nicole:

Um, and they fear being out, being without guidance or stubborn.

Julie:

Okay.

Julie:

Oh, interesting.

Julie:

Yes.

Julie:

Okay.

Julie:

We're going to get that to that in a second.

Julie:

Type seven.

Julie:

The enthusiast.

Nicole:

Yeah, and they can also be known as the Epicure and this type.

Nicole:

I think of, they are very playful and spontaneous.

Nicole:

Their core desire is satisfaction or pleasure.

Nicole:

So they don't want to be deprived or.

Nicole:

The mundane is kind of something they don't want to deal with.

Nicole:

So they are constantly seeking pleasure and stimulation from their experiences.

Julie:

That's very interesting then type eight.

Julie:

We've talked about a little bit that challenger.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

And they can also be known as the protector.

Nicole:

and I think there's one system that even calls type eight,

Nicole:

the boss, which is very funny.

Nicole:

Um, so our core desire is to have control of our own lives and our

Nicole:

fear is being controlled and that can manifest in different ways for me.

Nicole:

It's a lot about my schedule and my time, or other people, it may be money.

Nicole:

It may be something else.

Nicole:

Yeah, it can be different things.

Nicole:

So we just want to make sure that we are protected from

Nicole:

vulnerabilities and weaknesses.

Julie:

So this might shock you, but the ninth one is the

Julie:

one I ranked the lowest on

Julie:

nine is called the peacemaker.

Nicole:

Yup.

Nicole:

Yup.

Nicole:

And they can also be known as the mediator.

Nicole:

So nines have this desire to have this piece, this piece of mind, they do

Nicole:

not like conflict where eights some.

Nicole:

And this is where I thought I wasn't innate because.

Nicole:

Love conflict, but I can deal with it very quickly.

Nicole:

Eights also have a denial piece, which is another reason why I

Nicole:

didn't think of a sudden eight.

Nicole:

I was in denial about it, but anyways, with nines, Um,

Nicole:

they have this separation or loss.

Nicole:

So they think if they're in conflict with somebody that they're

Nicole:

going to be separated from them, or they won't, they'll lose them

Nicole:

as a friend or partner, whoever.

Nicole:

So they're constantly seeking harmony and peace.

Nicole:

And I think with you looking at your results and knowing that seven.

Nicole:

I think a second

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

So for the, for the listeners, apparently there's you, the three, top

Julie:

three scores are very important in.

Julie:

In our personalities.

Julie:

Uh, my top one was an eight, which is the challenger is second, was the loyalist and

Julie:

the third, which was number six type sex.

Julie:

And the third highest was a type seven.

Julie:

Um, which is the enthusiast.

Julie:

I will say.

Julie:

the loyalist and enthusiastic, they were one point away from each other.

Nicole:

Mm.

Julie:

they could flip flop on, on that.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So I would say, just looking at that your wing would be a seven, so you'd be an

Nicole:

eight wing seven where I'm an eight wing nine because I'm, I'm more introverted.

Nicole:

I don't, I'm not like spontaneous, I can be, but I have to

Nicole:

be in the mood to do that.

Julie:

Please explain wing.

Julie:

Cause I don't know what that means.

Nicole:

Yup.

Nicole:

So the wings, um, and sometimes people get confused.

Nicole:

So if you were looking at this and you're like, well, six is my

Nicole:

high school, second high score.

Nicole:

So it must be an eight wing six.

Nicole:

Well, that's not correct.

Nicole:

So wings are the numbers on either side.

Nicole:

So with us, you can either be an eight wing seven or an eight

Nicole:

wing nine and so on, so forth.

Nicole:

So a three, their wing is either going to be a two or a four.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So everybody has the one core type and this is why it can be so confusing.

Nicole:

You have your core type, then you have a wing on either side.

Nicole:

So that's two other numbers you have in relationship to, and then

Nicole:

you also have connection points to two other numbers where you

Nicole:

can connect and health and growth.

Nicole:

So really you have a connection with five numbers.

Nicole:

So it's so easy that people get mistyped, like.

Nicole:

If you've been mistyped or you're like, I'm still confused.

Nicole:

Like you don't have to rush into deciding what number you are.

Nicole:

Nobody's out here being like pick a number.

Nicole:

So,

Julie:

So this is, what's so interesting about this conversation because, um,

Julie:

again, I didn't, I took the test.

Julie:

I didn't know what it means, but I know you listened to the numerology,

Nicole:

um,

Julie:

interview that I did with Joe solely where my life path

Julie:

number is a seven, but I was born.

Julie:

On the eighth.

Julie:

And so she keeps saying that I gravitate towards being an eight, but I should try

Julie:

to reform myself a little to be a seven, which is interesting that I'm an eight,

Julie:

but the wing next to it is the seven.

Julie:

It's just very strange, you

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

There, I mean, there's, I believe there's and I I'm a little Lou, I

Nicole:

believe there's like synchronicities and there's numbers in our life for

Nicole:

a reason and things we keep seeing.

Nicole:

So Yeah.

Nicole:

that's, that's really cool that you're, you're like connecting these patterns to

Julie:

Right.

Julie:

I mean, that's the thing about patterns.

Julie:

You can't connect them unless you look for them.

Julie:

, and I think you might, I did the intuition one with ONJ like that was that's.

Julie:

The thing about being more intuitive is looking for these not waiting for

Julie:

them to smack you in the freaking face.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

And that's another reason I kinda thought I was a four, cause

Nicole:

I'm like, I'm very intuitive.

Nicole:

And I thought, oh, it's my intuition comes from my heart.

Nicole:

No, the eight is part of the gut center.

Nicole:

That's your intuition, that's your somatic.

Nicole:

That's coming from the body.

Nicole:

And So I, had to really kind of realize that too.

Julie:

So I, the Enneagram is, is a diagram in when it's done.

Julie:

It's a diagram, it's a circle and the numbers around that circle and

Julie:

they make points and everything.

Julie:

And I'm going to suggest that the listeners buy this $12 tests.

Julie:

So you can see what I'm talking about.

Julie:

W w what I, I sent you my results, the eight pages of like here,

Julie:

you know, um, they did do that diagram for me in the diagram.

Julie:

They connected, the eight to two other numbers, which was

Julie:

growth or growth was a two.

Julie:

And stress was a five.

Julie:

What is that mean?

Nicole:

So what happens is eight.

Nicole:

When we are really healthy, we, we can access to.

Nicole:

So, and, and, uh, I do this program and somebody asked me because twos,

Nicole:

when they're in stress, they go to.

Nicole:

And they're like, oh, that makes me feel bad.

Nicole:

I was like, no, don't feel bad.

Nicole:

We're just accessing the best or the worst parts of those other numbers.

Nicole:

So with two we're accessing those really, empathetic pieces.

Nicole:

We can really connect with people, which is interesting because

Nicole:

this podcast is about networking.

Nicole:

Twos are amazing networkers because they like to get to know people.

Nicole:

And so.

Nicole:

That's where we go.

Nicole:

When, when we're experiencing growth, we pull out those really good qualities.

Nicole:

And then when we're in stress, we're going to access our type five.

Nicole:

So let's say for example, and maybe you did this, maybe you didn't, I

Nicole:

don't know, but let's say you were like, oh, I'm interviewing Nicole.

Nicole:

I don't know a damn thing about any agreement.

Nicole:

Oh my gosh.

Nicole:

Internet search.

Nicole:

I got to sluice.

Nicole:

I got to look at everything.

Nicole:

I got to take the test.

Nicole:

I got to figure all this out.

Julie:

Exactly.

Nicole:

That's an eight going to five and stress because fives are, let me

Nicole:

collect all the knowledge and all the

Julie:

Um,

Nicole:

So that's what eight Stu when we're in stress and each type has numbers

Nicole:

that they go to in stress and growth.

Nicole:

So with us, we're an eight, we can either be a wing nine or a wing seven, and then

Nicole:

we go to two and then we can go to five.

Nicole:

So those are our five numbers that we have access.

Julie:

Where does the, where does like the six come in?

Julie:

The fact that that was in my top three.

Julie:

Is that just something I access in my personality?

Nicole:

Not necessarily, it could be that the way you took the

Nicole:

test, depending on your mood of the day can impact your results.

Julie:

Okay.

Nicole:

It could be that you just ask a lot of questions.

Nicole:

And so that's something you naturally do.

Nicole:

And I think it's funny too, because those are both in the head center, which is the.

Nicole:

Uh, the normal, the mental intelligence piece.

Nicole:

So you may have really good access to that mental intelligence, but also five, six,

Nicole:

and seven being in that head center triad.

Nicole:

They also have a lot of access to the core emotion of fear where 8, 9,

Nicole:

9 1, we, our core emotion is anger.

Nicole:

So, and I think that's where we become really intimidated

Nicole:

because it's like, it's anger.

Nicole:

I just got to move it through my body.

Nicole:

But other people are like, oh, anger, that's bad.

Nicole:

Like.

Nicole:

I don't even use the word anger.

Nicole:

I like to use the word frustrated, like, cause they think anger makes

Nicole:

them look like a bad person and we're just like, it's just energy.

Nicole:

We got to move it.

Julie:

Right.

Julie:

One thing you said when you talked about the six, which is my second

Julie:

highest number, you said that the need for stability, that is 100% me.

Julie:

The way that I grew up, the, you know, just being poor.

Julie:

My, you know, my mom's car, being repossessed out of the driveway

Julie:

and me watching them tow it away.

Julie:

Like I, I live in this.

Julie:

It doesn't matter how much money I ever have.

Julie:

I will live with the fear.

Julie:

That my things will be taken away from me.

Julie:

Like I remember thinking like in the great recession saying to my husband,

Julie:

like what if we lose one of our homes?

Julie:

That was my immediate thought was what if we lose one of our homes?

Julie:

Like that was never going to be a reality, but I

Nicole:

is, which is so funny.

Nicole:

Cause I want to pause for a second cause it's like, okay.

Nicole:

Homes with an S right?

Nicole:

What if we lose one of our homes, Right.

Nicole:

know, just to think about that from a place of privilege for a second, it's

Nicole:

like, I don't want to be vulnerable.

Nicole:

I might lose one of my homes,

Julie:

Exactly.

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

And so that was my first, my first thought wasn't like,

Julie:

oh, maybe we have to cut back.

Julie:

Maybe you have it.

Julie:

My first thought was, we're going to lose a house.

Julie:

I immediately, my mind need for stability.

Julie:

Financial stability is so baked into me.

Julie:

Not only did I have this situation with, with my mom, but I was essentially

Julie:

raised by my grandmother who is 97, who grew up in the depression, who

Julie:

you had a freezer in the basement for when we didn't have food.

Julie:

When the depression came again, like this was my mentality as a

Julie:

child, was that at any moment, things will be taken away from us.

Nicole:

Yeah, and I think.

Nicole:

If, if you don't have and save and, and have these things that leaves

Nicole:

you vulnerable and will you cry.

Julie:

Right.

Nicole:

So I think that it makes sense that you're an eight

Nicole:

with that C w my a is more of a.

Nicole:

My dad was, , emotionally and verbally abusive.

Nicole:

So I would stand up to my dad and be like, you can't do that.

Nicole:

As an eight year old kid, like, whoa.

Nicole:

You know, and, and I didn't even think about that until I looked back and I

Nicole:

was like, oh yeah, definitely an eight.

Julie:

There are so many things that in the light of reflection, years later

Julie:

are so glaringly obvious, but you can't when you're in them, recognize them.

Julie:

So tell me how you work with people to make them recognize.

Julie:

Their personality types.

Julie:

And then the strengths that lie within that personality type, because I

Julie:

know you work with a lot, a lot with entrepreneurs, which is, we are the thing.

Julie:

We are the business.

Julie:

We are the thing we need to know how to be the, at our best working

Julie:

with our strengths all of the time.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So depending on what type the individual is, cause it's all going to be custom.

Nicole:

So like your personality and then what are your goals?

Nicole:

What's your end thing that you want to get to?

Nicole:

So I recently worked with a three and I was like, when's the last time

Nicole:

you like, took a break or just sat around and were like, do you know

Nicole:

how to be, what does being mean?

Nicole:

And she was like, Cannot recall.

Nicole:

Like I know it was at least October last year and I was like, Okay.

Nicole:

So let's work on that, you know?

Nicole:

So how was like, could you do 60 seconds?

Nicole:

Cause I know if I was like five minutes, that was going to be too much.

Nicole:

So just figuring out that, because I approach this coaching piece that Yeah.

Nicole:

we want our.

Nicole:

To succeed.

Nicole:

But if we don't take care of ourselves and understand who we

Nicole:

are, it's not going to succeed.

Nicole:

I bring a lot that holistic approach because of my background within higher ed.

Nicole:

So for us as eight it's we make quick action.

Nicole:

We want to move.

Nicole:

We want to go, go, go.

Nicole:

, if I'm working with a six and they're like, Oh, I'm scared

Nicole:

this isn't going to work.

Nicole:

You know, there's a lot of fear that comes up.

Nicole:

A lot of self doubt.

Nicole:

Sixes Are very big into self doubt and not being assured and confident.

Nicole:

So that's what I think.

Nicole:

I just bring some of that confident energy so I can help them see.

Nicole:

Well, why aren't you taking action?

Nicole:

You've already thought through all the things.

Nicole:

So using the personality of each individual and seeing those strengths

Nicole:

with a really good at if there's areas they need to develop, or maybe there's

Nicole:

things they can outsource, like say.

Nicole:

No mundane thing.

Nicole:

So sevens, I hate bookkeeping, if sevens don't like that, I'm like outsource it.

Nicole:

If you don't like it, outsource it or sandwich it, do something you really like

Nicole:

do the thing you don't like, and then do something fun out on the other end.

Nicole:

so each personality has something they're going to be really good at and

Nicole:

something they're not going to be good.

Julie:

Are there good personality matches I'm an eight.

Julie:

Do I jive well with a certain personality number or a person that I wouldn't jive?

Julie:

Well, because I'm also, you and I are like, immediately, like, Oh, like

Julie:

w two eights, like peas and carrots right now, but are there like two

Julie:

numbers that you're like, Ooh, I should probably steer clear of this

Julie:

personality type or is that not a thing,

Nicole:

I think it can depend.

Nicole:

So, um, I'm very conscious of this sometimes.

Nicole:

So my sister and I are both eight, my sister is a different kind of ADA.

Nicole:

I think that I am so I'm like, oh, you're acting like, yeah.

Nicole:

I'm like, you're acting like Alec Baldwin.

Nicole:

Again.

Nicole:

I'm going to need you to level it down.

Nicole:

Like when she gets in her moods, like yesterday, I saw her and she was

Nicole:

telling me something about at work.

Nicole:

Something was going weird.

Nicole:

I said, yeah, I could tell.

Nicole:

Cause you texted me and you were very rude.

Nicole:

And she was just like, okay.

Nicole:

So, you know, I think sometimes eights, we can butt heads because we might think

Nicole:

the other aide is trying to control us or whatever, but we also move through

Nicole:

it really quickly because we can be blunt and honest and just move on.

Nicole:

Now.

Nicole:

I think, um, I always say this carefully because I never think people should.

Nicole:

Filter their self or water, their self down, or try to be something

Nicole:

they're not, but at the same time when you're aware of how you're coming off.

Nicole:

So , I'm very intimidating.

Nicole:

I know that I can be bossy, bitchy, whatever other words

Nicole:

you want to call me aggressive.

Nicole:

So when I'm approaching a two, I'm not going to be like,

Nicole:

just go do the fucking thing.

Nicole:

I want to be like, okay.

Nicole:

So how can we just go do this thing?

Nicole:

How can we go take the action?

Nicole:

Right.

Nicole:

So twos, Annie.

Nicole:

I know.

Nicole:

And they.

Nicole:

They're more emotional, even fours are more emotional, especially

Nicole:

all that heart center piece.

Nicole:

So the two, three, and four, but when I approached them, it's going

Nicole:

to be a little bit different.

Nicole:

It's not going to be as much fluff as with a three.

Nicole:

I would be.

Nicole:

Just go set your alarm and B we're a two.

Nicole:

I would, you know, let's be a little bit nicer.

Nicole:

Nicole.

Nicole:

Let's use some nicer language then I would approach, maybe a one or a, or a three.

Nicole:

Knowing how you're coming across the perception of how others perceive you.

Nicole:

Because I remember the first time somebody told me I was intimidated.

Nicole:

I was like, oh, that's funny.

Nicole:

I'm not intimidating.

Nicole:

But then I realized, yeah, yeah, I'm kind of.

Julie:

I get that.

Julie:

I get that from people that I'm

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Julie:

But I also am.

Julie:

I feel like you can say anything to me.

Julie:

I'm like Teflon, Don.

Julie:

You can say anything to me.

Julie:

Let's talk about it.

Julie:

, so I feel like maybe that is intimidating, but I always feel like I, I allow

Julie:

people to say whatever they want to me.

Julie:

And I'm like, okay, let's, let's, let's figure this out, you know, but I

Nicole:

also this intensity, this energy.

Nicole:

So we can just be.

Nicole:

Intense, cause I was like, how am I intense?

Nicole:

I'm not, I don't feel like I'm that like, but somebody was

Nicole:

like, Nicole, it's your energy?

Nicole:

It's your presence.

Nicole:

It's just what you bro.

Nicole:

I was like, oh, like I didn't realize that.

Nicole:

And then I was like, okay, well this makes more sense.

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

So when someone works with you, do they come into working with you knowing their

Julie:

type or do you go through the process of discovering their type together?

Nicole:

So I'll ask them to take a test first and that's where we'll start.

Nicole:

So, you know, I'm like, send me your results if you want to pay for it.

Nicole:

Great.

Nicole:

If you don't just send me what you get and then.

Nicole:

If we're going through it and it's not sitting right, then we'll work through it.

Nicole:

I'm working with a team Right.

Nicole:

now for, through an agency.

Nicole:

And one of their members was debating between a two and a four.

Nicole:

So it was like, okay, we we've talked about the four before we

Nicole:

meet again, I would like for you to do some self-reflection

Nicole:

and kind of figured this out.

Nicole:

Cause I can't get inside your brain.

Nicole:

I can give you some tools and some questions and help you

Nicole:

decide, which is best fit.

Nicole:

Let's use this as a starting point.

Nicole:

So if I was coaching you on like, okay, you're an eight, let's

Nicole:

start there and go through things.

Nicole:

And I think , from us talking like an eight seems pretty accurate,

Nicole:

especially, listening through some of your older podcasts and stuff.

Julie:

If I came to you and I was like, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm an eight.

Julie:

Do I present you?

Julie:

My challenge?

Julie:

Like, this is what I'm being challenged with at work, or this

Julie:

is what I'm struggling with.

Julie:

Or like, does that come up in the, like, how does that, how do you help?

Julie:

I'm just, what is the, how do you help

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

So I asked them some questions, , what are your goals?

Nicole:

What's your biggest thing that you're struggling with right now?

Nicole:

Where do you want to be in three, six months?

Nicole:

Talk through all of that, because, we can all be struggling with different

Nicole:

things or even the same thing, but how you approach it and how you, solve

Nicole:

that problem or, or work it out in a way that's healthy is going to

Nicole:

be different based on that number.

Nicole:

A lot of times it's, I want to make more money.

Nicole:

I need to get in front of people?

Nicole:

I need to be more visible.

Nicole:

An eight it's just like, just go do it right?

Nicole:

Where, other numbers it's , okay, well six, why are you scared?

Nicole:

Five?

Nicole:

Why are you hiding?

Nicole:

Isolating?

Nicole:

Every number is going to have something.

Nicole:

And the Enneagram is, is that framework is that tool to help people understand,

Nicole:

and how they approach the business, how they do things, because some people

Nicole:

are like, oh, I'm not good at sales.

Nicole:

Okay, well maybe you're not good at asking for the sale, but is there some.

Nicole:

Because of XYZ and you're tight, that's holding you back from even

Nicole:

asking for the sale or from being visible or from whatever it is.

Julie:

So I'm to say we could have talked for five hours and I would still be.

Nicole:

Oh yeah.

Julie:

Not understanding a lot of what is in this eight page document about myself.

Julie:

So I'm going to suggest to the listeners, number one, take this test.

Julie:

It is, it is so interesting.

Julie:

Take the test, figure out your number, reach out to Nicole and say,

Julie:

what can I do with this information?

Julie:

Um, I think that would be great because I pretty much am going to, hang up with

Julie:

you and then send you an email and say, what else do I do with this information?

Julie:

Because it is, there's so much in here.

Julie:

And I just feel like the deeper weeds, like, like anything, the deeper we

Julie:

dig, the more we're going to uncover and the more useful it's going to be.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Cause then you go into subtypes and the intelligence centers.

Nicole:

There is so much within the Enneagram that you can use because yeah.

Nicole:

Self-awareness but then it's, self-mastery, and so much that

Nicole:

you can use for professional and personal development.

Julie:

Yeah, I would suggest for people, for team, you know, for

Julie:

entrepreneurs, know your type

Nicole:

Mm.

Julie:

your strengths and your weaknesses and not type, and then encourage, if

Julie:

you are S if you are on a team that works together, encourage everybody

Julie:

to do this so that you can begin to understand the different types and it

Julie:

might change the way you work together.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah, for sure.

Julie:

Oh, Nicole, thank you.

Julie:

This was great.

Julie:

I mean, honestly, I love when I have a topic that I know nothing about,

Julie:

and then I'm like, oh, this is great.

Julie:

I've learned something, but I also want to know more.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

I love it.

Nicole:

I'm so glad I was able to introduce you to the Enneagram.

Julie:

Okay.

Julie:

Thanks so much.

Julie:

I'm going to put links to your website, your information, in the show notes.

Julie:

I'm going to suggest that everybody reached out to Nicole

Julie:

to, to start digging into this.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

And when the show goes live, when you're listening, you know, screenshot it and tag

Nicole:

me, I'd love to see that you've heard it.

Nicole:

And so I can reshare you.

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

Awesome.

Julie:

Thanks so much.

Nicole:

Thank you.

Julie:

So we clearly only scratched the surface of what Enneagrams

Julie:

are and how understanding what our numbers are, can help us.

Julie:

Each of the nine personality types we talked about is characterized by a set of

Julie:

dominant behaviors, motivations and fears.

Julie:

The goal of the Enneagram is to better understand your type so that you'll be

Julie:

able to make the most of your strengths.

Julie:

And address your weaknesses in order to achieve your full potential.

Julie:

Well, personalities are complex and a simple online test is not enough

Julie:

to tell you everything about your personality, your motivations,

Julie:

behaviors, strengths, or weaknesses.

Julie:

But I love that it offers a foundation to have a discussion about who we

Julie:

are, why we do the things we do.

Julie:

And why we react to things a certain way.

Julie:

I think it's fascinating.

Julie:

And after the conversation I had with Joe solely about my life path number, I'm

Julie:

so intrigued how the numbers seven and eight keep showing up in everything I do.

Julie:

I want to know more and I hope this conversation has made you curious as well.

Julie:

Do you already know your number?

Julie:

Did anything that Nicole said about your number resonate with you as it relates

Julie:

to your fears and your motivations?

Julie:

See when Nicole said the Enneagram eights go to a two in times of

Julie:

growth, that 100% tracks with me.

Julie:

That's when I'm building relationships easily.

Julie:

I'm able to express my emotions.

Julie:

I'm generous and I'm helpful.

Julie:

But during times of stress, when I go to a five, that's a hundred percent me as well.

Julie:

When I'm stressed, I'm worried that I'm not capable of doing all the things

Julie:

I want to do and become hyperactive and preoccupied with thoughts of

Julie:

what if this and what if that.

Julie:

Now.

Julie:

It's one thing to recognize that all of these things are happening,

Julie:

but it's another thing to have tools to work through them.

Julie:

That's what Nicole does.

Julie:

She helps people make sense of their motivations and fears

Julie:

based on their personality type.

Julie:

I think we could all use a better understanding of that.

Julie:

Anyway, there's no shortage of information out there on Enneagram types.

Julie:

And I encourage you to learn more about what type you are and see

Julie:

if it doesn't make you go, huh?

Julie:

When looking at their corresponding treats, fears and motivations

Julie:

associated with the number.

Julie:

And if there are any other eights out there,

Julie:

Let me know.

Julie:

So because the eight keeps showing up in my life.

Julie:

I found a cocktail called the number eight.

Julie:

And it has mezcal and ginger in it, which are two of my favorite things.

Julie:

How perfect is that?

Julie:

Here's what you're going to need a half ounce of fresh lime juice.

Julie:

One ounce, every Ruby red, grapefruit juice.

Julie:

Three fours, ounce or ginger liquor.

Julie:

I used to make Anton cause that's what I had.

Julie:

One ounce of mezcal.

Julie:

One dash of orange bitters.

Julie:

And if you want a garnish, she can have a, an orange twist or

Julie:

an orange wheel as a garnish.

Julie:

What you're going to do is you're going to add the lime juice, grapefruit juice,

Julie:

ginger liqour mess, cow and orange bitters to a cocktail shaker and filled with ice.

Julie:

Shake shake, shake, and then strain into a filled highball glass.

Julie:

Garnish was that orange twist or the orange wheel and surf.

Julie:

That's my friends.

Julie:

I hope you enjoyed this episode.

Julie:

I certainly enjoyed researching it.

Julie:

Um, and I hope you got something out of it.

Julie:

Until next week.

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About the Podcast

This Shit Works
The people you meet can 100% Change Your Life! Networking is how you meet those people. Which sucks because you hate networking, you think you're bad at networking, and you certainly don’t have time to network. Bullshit! Welcome to This Shit Works, a weekly podcast hosted by entrepreneur, CEO, public speaker, author, business development strategist and networking coach Julie Brown. Just don’t call her Downtown Julie Brown - she doesn’t like that.

Each week Julie will bring to you her no nonsense tips, tricks and conversations around networking your way to more friends, more adventures and way more success!
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