Using Enneagram Personality Types to Uncover Your Strengths with Nicole Saunders

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We've all heard of the Myers-Briggs personality test.

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You've probably taken that test a few times over the course of

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your schooling and your career.

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But have you ever taken an Enneagram test to find out your personality?

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Number.

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Welcome to episode 70 of this shit works.

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I am your host, Julie Brown.

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And today I am joined by Nicole Saunders to discuss using any grams for business.

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And self-awareness.

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This episode is sponsored by Nickerson.

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A full service, branding, marketing PR and communications agency.

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With team members in Boston.

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LA.

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Miami and New York city.

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Visit them.

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At Nickerson C O S.

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Dot com.

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I won't lie.

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Before researching this podcast, I knew nothing about Enneagrams and now.

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After doing the research on this podcast, I know.

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Next to nothing about any grams, except that there are nine personality types.

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In preparation for my conversation with Nicole, I purchased an online

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Enneagram test, which consisted of 144 pairs of statements.

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For each pair of statements, you pick the one that most reflects your personality.

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Some were super easy to answer.

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I was like, yep.

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That's me a hundred percent.

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But some other ones I felt could go either way.

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And I struggled to pick the one that described me the most.

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And that was a little frustrating.

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After I answered the 144 questions.

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My test results were emailed to me in an eight page document.

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Which left me with more questions.

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Then I started with it's like, when you, get your yearly blood work done and

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the lab sends you back a print out and you look at it and you're like, well,

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I guess my hemoglobin numbers are good.

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And Michael Lester all is within acceptable parameters.

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My iron's looking pretty healthy as well.

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The numbers are there, but they don't really mean anything

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to you or at least to me.

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That is what getting my Enneagram type indicator back was like for me.

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Apparently within these results lies, powerful information.

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Corporations small businesses and non-profits around the world are

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using the Enneagram as a breakthrough approach for leadership development

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team, building communication skills and emotional intelligence.

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The ne Ram shows a range of healthy to unhealthy behaviors that each personality

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type might demonstrate unconsciously.

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This podcast is all about networking.

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And knowing your Enneagram can help improve your people

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skills among other things.

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This is why I needed to talk to a professional about this.

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Someone who could break this all down for us.

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And turn Nicole Saunders, who is a business coach who helps people grow

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their businesses by tapping into their Enneagram personality type.

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And it's strengths.

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. Nicole, welcome to the.

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Oh, my God.

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That was the best.

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I'm like over here, cracking up.

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I'm like, I've never heard anybody introduce the.

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Enneagram in this way, nor compare it to blood work.

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I'm like dying.

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This is So far.

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And I'm like, no, I had your results in advance.

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And I'm like, you know, you're reading that.

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I'm like, yup, definitely an eight.

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Like I'm also an eight.

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So I'm like, I'm just like, this is too funny, too funny.

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So I'm literally walking into unchartered territory here, and so

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I'm assuming that for a number of the people who are listening to this

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podcast, they're all like any of who can you just sort of, what is this

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Enneagram personality type thing?

Nicole: 00:04:10

Yeah.

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So at the end of the day, it's basically a way to understand the why.

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Behind the things that you do.

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So why do you act this way?

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Why do you come across this way?

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Why do people think, for us eight, why do people think we're intimidating and bossy?

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Well, and I, we just are that way naturally.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it's a good way to understand yourself.

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And also others.

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It's a really good tool for building empathy.

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And, there are so many pieces of the Enneagram.

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It is so deep.

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I'll, I'll try not to go too in depth with it.

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We'll try to keep it more basic level,

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So there's there's nine types is this is like a basic question.

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Cause I don't know because I got mine back.

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So for the listeners, I'm an eight, we'll get into that later.

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The eight is called the challenger and I immediately, it was like for

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one fucking time in my life, could I just please be like the good person,

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the person who understands like.

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And so immediately I was like, oh, eight is probably the worst number.

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It is one type better than the others.

Nicole: 00:05:26

N no, no, they're all equal playing field.

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Right.

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So, and, and the funny thing is, I think.

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And I talk about this quite a bit is in entrepreneurship.

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I think people are like, oh, I need to be a three because that's the best

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type, but that's not necessarily true.

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I think a lot of people think one threes are best, but two that,

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because I'm an entrepreneur and I'm driven and I'll work really hard.

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And I'm a workaholic because I like, I.

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That I'm a three, but that's not always the case.

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We could have similar behaviors.

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I'm like eights and threes could have similar behaviors as to why

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we're really driven and wildly take fast action and want to work hard.

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But.

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Eight.

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So want to work hard because we don't want to be controlled.

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So we all have these drivers behind these core fears, core desires behind the why.

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so with eights it's we don't want to be controlled.

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We want to be in charge of our own destiny, Tom, whatever.

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And So there is no better or worse type.

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There's not one that, oh, that's the best type.

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We all want to be like this or one that's like it is, I do not want to

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be like that type now, personally.

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And I probably shouldn't say this, but there are.

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Is that when I first heard about them, I was like, oh my God, that is not me.

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I would not want to be that like,

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let's do let's break down the types.

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So there's nine.

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So let's start with all right.

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So type one is called the reformer.

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What is the reformer?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So each type has different names and depending on which I'm, which

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school of thought you're looking at, they may have different ones.

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So.

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I may call it a different name.

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So the one could be the perfectionist or the reformer.

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, and so those are their core desire is they want to be good.

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They don't want to be wrong or evil, so they are chasing things to be good.

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Things can be black or white for them.

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Like there's not, it's hard for them to learn this middle ground thing.

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So, and, and I will say, let me preface this too, with I'm

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giving you general information.

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Now, there are some people that may be really healthy.

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I don't do that.

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Or people that are like, oh my gosh.

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I'm so like, that's me.

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It's just because they don't understand, like, you just don't have that.

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Self-awareness, haven't went through a growth process yet.

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So these are generalized things.

Nicole: 00:07:38

Yeah, yeah,

Julie: 00:07:40

Okay.

Julie: 00:07:40

So we've the reform one, the reformer now on, on the test that I took, I'll

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give the names at the test that I, took, and then you can say if there's

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a different imprint to, is the helper.

Nicole: 00:07:51

Yep.

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So two is the helper or also known as the giver and they want to be loved and

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accepted and they fear being unwanted.

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So a lot of times they're doing things because they want love in return.

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So I'm going to do this for you.

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So you'll love me.

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Okay.

Nicole: 00:08:07

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, Right.

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Like an a is probably like, oh, that is not me.

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I do not do things because I want people to love me.

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I don't care if you like me or not.

Julie: 00:08:15

Right.

Julie: 00:08:16

Yes.

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Yeah.

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The three is now this was what I was upset about.

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I looked at the names before I, before I did, and I was like, I'm

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definitely going to be a three because the three, and you mentioned it.

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Everybody wants to be a three.

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The three is called the achiever.

Nicole: 00:08:32

Yeah, and they can also be known as the performer.

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So the achiever.

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what happens is they want to be valued and essentially loved

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because of what they accomplish.

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So again, they may be doing what we're doing.

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You know, they may be an entrepreneur, but they're doing it because

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they want people to see their achievements, their accomplishments,

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and that's how they gain love.

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So they fear being worthless and I am.

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This also comes from your childhood.

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So a lot of this was how you were raised, your parents or guardians

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or whoever your caretaker was and it developed your defense mechanisms.

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So that way, this is what happens now as an adult, you can see this playing out.

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sure.

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A number for the individualist.

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That's what it is on my.

Nicole: 00:09:19

Yup.

Nicole: 00:09:19

Yup.

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And they can be called individualist or the romantic.

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And so they want to have this unique significance.

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They want to create this identity and they fear not being significant.

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So, and I, for the longest time I thought I was a four, but when I

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looked at the childhood grow stuff, I realized I was an eight and I'll

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look back and I'm like, Oh, my gosh.

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I'm totally an a, I can't believe I didn't see these signs before,

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but, um, fours just have this core, like, what am I missing?

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What does everybody else have that I don't have?

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So they constantly think they're missing something.

Julie: 00:09:56

Oh, okay.

Julie: 00:09:58

Uh, moving on to number five, the investigator.

Nicole: 00:10:02

Yeah.

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So the investigator or the observer is type five and they want to be competent.

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So, and fives can sometimes miss type threes as well, but that what

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they're doing is learning this stuff.

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So they know things and they don't appear as useless or Dom

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or whatever term you want to use.

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I'm so they are constantly trying.

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Resources, especially knowledge.

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Um, yeah.

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So that's the observer or the investigator.

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Okay.

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Number six, the loyal.

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Yeah.

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So this type, um, the loyalist or the loyal.

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skeptic, sometimes I think of them as the devil's advocate, just

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because they ask so many questions.

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If you're asking a lot of questions and you're like trying to make sure

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that everything's really secure and safe, um, you might be a type six.

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So their desire is to have that security and that support system.

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Um, and they fear being out, being without guidance or stubborn.

Julie: 00:11:03

Okay.

Julie: 00:11:04

Oh, interesting.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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We're going to get that to that in a second.

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Type seven.

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The enthusiast.

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Yeah, and they can also be known as the Epicure and this type.

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I think of, they are very playful and spontaneous.

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Their core desire is satisfaction or pleasure.

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So they don't want to be deprived or.

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The mundane is kind of something they don't want to deal with.

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So they are constantly seeking pleasure and stimulation from their experiences.

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That's very interesting then type eight.

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We've talked about a little bit that challenger.

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Yeah.

Nicole: 00:11:43

Yeah.

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And they can also be known as the protector.

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and I think there's one system that even calls type eight,

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the boss, which is very funny.

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Um, so our core desire is to have control of our own lives and our

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fear is being controlled and that can manifest in different ways for me.

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It's a lot about my schedule and my time, or other people, it may be money.

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It may be something else.

Nicole: 00:12:06

Yeah, it can be different things.

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So we just want to make sure that we are protected from

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vulnerabilities and weaknesses.

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So this might shock you, but the ninth one is the

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one I ranked the lowest on

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nine is called the peacemaker.

Nicole: 00:12:24

Yup.

Nicole: 00:12:26

Yup.

Nicole: 00:12:26

And they can also be known as the mediator.

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So nines have this desire to have this piece, this piece of mind, they do

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not like conflict where eights some.

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And this is where I thought I wasn't innate because.

Nicole: 00:12:39

Love conflict, but I can deal with it very quickly.

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Eights also have a denial piece, which is another reason why I

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didn't think of a sudden eight.

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I was in denial about it, but anyways, with nines, Um,

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they have this separation or loss.

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So they think if they're in conflict with somebody that they're

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going to be separated from them, or they won't, they'll lose them

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as a friend or partner, whoever.

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So they're constantly seeking harmony and peace.

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And I think with you looking at your results and knowing that seven.

Nicole: 00:13:08

I think a second

Julie: 00:13:09

Yeah.

Julie: 00:13:10

So for the, for the listeners, apparently there's you, the three, top

Julie: 00:13:15

three scores are very important in.

Julie: 00:13:18

In our personalities.

Julie: 00:13:19

Uh, my top one was an eight, which is the challenger is second, was the loyalist and

Julie: 00:13:25

the third, which was number six type sex.

Julie: 00:13:28

And the third highest was a type seven.

Julie: 00:13:31

Um, which is the enthusiast.

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I will say.

Julie: 00:13:33

the loyalist and enthusiastic, they were one point away from each other.

Nicole: 00:13:36

Mm.

Julie: 00:13:36

they could flip flop on, on that.

Nicole: 00:13:38

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:13:38

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:13:39

So I would say, just looking at that your wing would be a seven, so you'd be an

Nicole: 00:13:43

eight wing seven where I'm an eight wing nine because I'm, I'm more introverted.

Nicole: 00:13:47

I don't, I'm not like spontaneous, I can be, but I have to

Nicole: 00:13:51

be in the mood to do that.

Julie: 00:13:53

Please explain wing.

Julie: 00:13:54

Cause I don't know what that means.

Nicole: 00:13:56

Yup.

Nicole: 00:13:57

So the wings, um, and sometimes people get confused.

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So if you were looking at this and you're like, well, six is my

Nicole: 00:14:02

high school, second high score.

Nicole: 00:14:03

So it must be an eight wing six.

Nicole: 00:14:05

Well, that's not correct.

Nicole: 00:14:07

So wings are the numbers on either side.

Nicole: 00:14:09

So with us, you can either be an eight wing seven or an eight

Nicole: 00:14:13

wing nine and so on, so forth.

Nicole: 00:14:15

So a three, their wing is either going to be a two or a four.

Nicole: 00:14:20

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:14:21

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:14:21

So everybody has the one core type and this is why it can be so confusing.

Nicole: 00:14:25

You have your core type, then you have a wing on either side.

Nicole: 00:14:28

So that's two other numbers you have in relationship to, and then

Nicole: 00:14:31

you also have connection points to two other numbers where you

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can connect and health and growth.

Nicole: 00:14:38

So really you have a connection with five numbers.

Nicole: 00:14:42

So it's so easy that people get mistyped, like.

Nicole: 00:14:47

If you've been mistyped or you're like, I'm still confused.

Nicole: 00:14:49

Like you don't have to rush into deciding what number you are.

Nicole: 00:14:52

Nobody's out here being like pick a number.

Nicole: 00:14:55

So,

Julie: 00:14:56

So this is, what's so interesting about this conversation because, um,

Julie: 00:14:59

again, I didn't, I took the test.

Julie: 00:15:01

I didn't know what it means, but I know you listened to the numerology,

Nicole: 00:15:06

um,

Julie: 00:15:07

interview that I did with Joe solely where my life path

Julie: 00:15:11

number is a seven, but I was born.

Julie: 00:15:15

On the eighth.

Julie: 00:15:17

And so she keeps saying that I gravitate towards being an eight, but I should try

Julie: 00:15:24

to reform myself a little to be a seven, which is interesting that I'm an eight,

Julie: 00:15:29

but the wing next to it is the seven.

Julie: 00:15:31

It's just very strange, you

Nicole: 00:15:33

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:15:34

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:15:34

There, I mean, there's, I believe there's and I I'm a little Lou, I

Nicole: 00:15:38

believe there's like synchronicities and there's numbers in our life for

Nicole: 00:15:41

a reason and things we keep seeing.

Nicole: 00:15:44

So Yeah.

Nicole: 00:15:45

that's, that's really cool that you're, you're like connecting these patterns to

Julie: 00:15:50

Right.

Julie: 00:15:50

I mean, that's the thing about patterns.

Julie: 00:15:52

You can't connect them unless you look for them.

Julie: 00:15:54

, and I think you might, I did the intuition one with ONJ like that was that's.

Julie: 00:15:59

The thing about being more intuitive is looking for these not waiting for

Julie: 00:16:03

them to smack you in the freaking face.

Nicole: 00:16:04

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:16:05

And that's another reason I kinda thought I was a four, cause

Nicole: 00:16:07

I'm like, I'm very intuitive.

Nicole: 00:16:10

And I thought, oh, it's my intuition comes from my heart.

Nicole: 00:16:14

No, the eight is part of the gut center.

Nicole: 00:16:17

That's your intuition, that's your somatic.

Nicole: 00:16:19

That's coming from the body.

Nicole: 00:16:21

And So I, had to really kind of realize that too.

Julie: 00:16:25

So I, the Enneagram is, is a diagram in when it's done.

Julie: 00:16:32

It's a diagram, it's a circle and the numbers around that circle and

Julie: 00:16:36

they make points and everything.

Julie: 00:16:38

And I'm going to suggest that the listeners buy this $12 tests.

Julie: 00:16:42

So you can see what I'm talking about.

Julie: 00:16:45

W w what I, I sent you my results, the eight pages of like here,

Julie: 00:16:50

you know, um, they did do that diagram for me in the diagram.

Julie: 00:16:55

They connected, the eight to two other numbers, which was

Julie: 00:17:00

growth or growth was a two.

Julie: 00:17:03

And stress was a five.

Julie: 00:17:05

What is that mean?

Nicole: 00:17:08

So what happens is eight.

Nicole: 00:17:10

When we are really healthy, we, we can access to.

Nicole: 00:17:14

So, and, and, uh, I do this program and somebody asked me because twos,

Nicole: 00:17:19

when they're in stress, they go to.

Nicole: 00:17:22

And they're like, oh, that makes me feel bad.

Nicole: 00:17:24

I was like, no, don't feel bad.

Nicole: 00:17:25

We're just accessing the best or the worst parts of those other numbers.

Nicole: 00:17:30

So with two we're accessing those really, empathetic pieces.

Nicole: 00:17:34

We can really connect with people, which is interesting because

Nicole: 00:17:37

this podcast is about networking.

Nicole: 00:17:39

Twos are amazing networkers because they like to get to know people.

Nicole: 00:17:44

And so.

Nicole: 00:17:45

That's where we go.

Nicole: 00:17:47

When, when we're experiencing growth, we pull out those really good qualities.

Nicole: 00:17:51

And then when we're in stress, we're going to access our type five.

Nicole: 00:17:55

So let's say for example, and maybe you did this, maybe you didn't, I

Nicole: 00:17:58

don't know, but let's say you were like, oh, I'm interviewing Nicole.

Nicole: 00:18:01

I don't know a damn thing about any agreement.

Nicole: 00:18:03

Oh my gosh.

Nicole: 00:18:03

Internet search.

Nicole: 00:18:04

I got to sluice.

Nicole: 00:18:05

I got to look at everything.

Nicole: 00:18:05

I got to take the test.

Nicole: 00:18:06

I got to figure all this out.

Julie: 00:18:07

Exactly.

Nicole: 00:18:08

That's an eight going to five and stress because fives are, let me

Nicole: 00:18:13

collect all the knowledge and all the

Julie: 00:18:14

Um,

Nicole: 00:18:15

So that's what eight Stu when we're in stress and each type has numbers

Nicole: 00:18:21

that they go to in stress and growth.

Nicole: 00:18:23

So with us, we're an eight, we can either be a wing nine or a wing seven, and then

Nicole: 00:18:28

we go to two and then we can go to five.

Nicole: 00:18:30

So those are our five numbers that we have access.

Julie: 00:18:34

Where does the, where does like the six come in?

Julie: 00:18:37

The fact that that was in my top three.

Julie: 00:18:39

Is that just something I access in my personality?

Nicole: 00:18:42

Not necessarily, it could be that the way you took the

Nicole: 00:18:47

test, depending on your mood of the day can impact your results.

Julie: 00:18:51

Okay.

Nicole: 00:18:52

It could be that you just ask a lot of questions.

Nicole: 00:18:55

And so that's something you naturally do.

Nicole: 00:18:58

And I think it's funny too, because those are both in the head center, which is the.

Nicole: 00:19:05

Uh, the normal, the mental intelligence piece.

Nicole: 00:19:09

So you may have really good access to that mental intelligence, but also five, six,

Nicole: 00:19:14

and seven being in that head center triad.

Nicole: 00:19:16

They also have a lot of access to the core emotion of fear where 8, 9,

Nicole: 00:19:21

9 1, we, our core emotion is anger.

Nicole: 00:19:24

So, and I think that's where we become really intimidated

Nicole: 00:19:26

because it's like, it's anger.

Nicole: 00:19:28

I just got to move it through my body.

Nicole: 00:19:29

But other people are like, oh, anger, that's bad.

Nicole: 00:19:32

Like.

Nicole: 00:19:34

I don't even use the word anger.

Nicole: 00:19:35

I like to use the word frustrated, like, cause they think anger makes

Nicole: 00:19:39

them look like a bad person and we're just like, it's just energy.

Nicole: 00:19:42

We got to move it.

Julie: 00:19:43

Right.

Julie: 00:19:44

One thing you said when you talked about the six, which is my second

Julie: 00:19:48

highest number, you said that the need for stability, that is 100% me.

Julie: 00:19:53

The way that I grew up, the, you know, just being poor.

Julie: 00:19:58

My, you know, my mom's car, being repossessed out of the driveway

Julie: 00:20:01

and me watching them tow it away.

Julie: 00:20:03

Like I, I live in this.

Julie: 00:20:05

It doesn't matter how much money I ever have.

Julie: 00:20:07

I will live with the fear.

Julie: 00:20:09

That my things will be taken away from me.

Julie: 00:20:11

Like I remember thinking like in the great recession saying to my husband,

Julie: 00:20:17

like what if we lose one of our homes?

Julie: 00:20:18

That was my immediate thought was what if we lose one of our homes?

Julie: 00:20:22

Like that was never going to be a reality, but I

Nicole: 00:20:25

is, which is so funny.

Nicole: 00:20:26

Cause I want to pause for a second cause it's like, okay.

Nicole: 00:20:28

Homes with an S right?

Nicole: 00:20:31

What if we lose one of our homes, Right.

Nicole: 00:20:35

know, just to think about that from a place of privilege for a second, it's

Nicole: 00:20:39

like, I don't want to be vulnerable.

Nicole: 00:20:40

I might lose one of my homes,

Julie: 00:20:42

Exactly.

Julie: 00:20:44

Yeah.

Julie: 00:20:44

And so that was my first, my first thought wasn't like,

Julie: 00:20:47

oh, maybe we have to cut back.

Julie: 00:20:49

Maybe you have it.

Julie: 00:20:50

My first thought was, we're going to lose a house.

Julie: 00:20:53

I immediately, my mind need for stability.

Julie: 00:20:56

Financial stability is so baked into me.

Julie: 00:21:00

Not only did I have this situation with, with my mom, but I was essentially

Julie: 00:21:05

raised by my grandmother who is 97, who grew up in the depression, who

Julie: 00:21:10

you had a freezer in the basement for when we didn't have food.

Julie: 00:21:14

When the depression came again, like this was my mentality as a

Julie: 00:21:18

child, was that at any moment, things will be taken away from us.

Nicole: 00:21:22

Yeah, and I think.

Nicole: 00:21:25

If, if you don't have and save and, and have these things that leaves

Nicole: 00:21:29

you vulnerable and will you cry.

Julie: 00:21:30

Right.

Nicole: 00:21:31

So I think that it makes sense that you're an eight

Nicole: 00:21:34

with that C w my a is more of a.

Nicole: 00:21:38

My dad was, , emotionally and verbally abusive.

Nicole: 00:21:41

So I would stand up to my dad and be like, you can't do that.

Nicole: 00:21:45

As an eight year old kid, like, whoa.

Nicole: 00:21:47

You know, and, and I didn't even think about that until I looked back and I

Nicole: 00:21:50

was like, oh yeah, definitely an eight.

Julie: 00:21:54

There are so many things that in the light of reflection, years later

Julie: 00:21:59

are so glaringly obvious, but you can't when you're in them, recognize them.

Julie: 00:22:05

So tell me how you work with people to make them recognize.

Julie: 00:22:12

Their personality types.

Julie: 00:22:13

And then the strengths that lie within that personality type, because I

Julie: 00:22:17

know you work with a lot, a lot with entrepreneurs, which is, we are the thing.

Julie: 00:22:21

We are the business.

Julie: 00:22:22

We are the thing we need to know how to be the, at our best working

Julie: 00:22:27

with our strengths all of the time.

Nicole: 00:22:29

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:22:29

So depending on what type the individual is, cause it's all going to be custom.

Nicole: 00:22:35

So like your personality and then what are your goals?

Nicole: 00:22:37

What's your end thing that you want to get to?

Nicole: 00:22:40

So I recently worked with a three and I was like, when's the last time

Nicole: 00:22:44

you like, took a break or just sat around and were like, do you know

Nicole: 00:22:49

how to be, what does being mean?

Nicole: 00:22:52

And she was like, Cannot recall.

Nicole: 00:22:55

Like I know it was at least October last year and I was like, Okay.

Nicole: 00:23:00

So let's work on that, you know?

Nicole: 00:23:03

So how was like, could you do 60 seconds?

Nicole: 00:23:06

Cause I know if I was like five minutes, that was going to be too much.

Nicole: 00:23:09

So just figuring out that, because I approach this coaching piece that Yeah.

Nicole: 00:23:15

we want our.

Nicole: 00:23:16

To succeed.

Nicole: 00:23:17

But if we don't take care of ourselves and understand who we

Nicole: 00:23:20

are, it's not going to succeed.

Nicole: 00:23:22

I bring a lot that holistic approach because of my background within higher ed.

Nicole: 00:23:26

So for us as eight it's we make quick action.

Nicole: 00:23:29

We want to move.

Nicole: 00:23:30

We want to go, go, go.

Nicole: 00:23:32

, if I'm working with a six and they're like, Oh, I'm scared

Nicole: 00:23:36

this isn't going to work.

Nicole: 00:23:37

You know, there's a lot of fear that comes up.

Nicole: 00:23:38

A lot of self doubt.

Nicole: 00:23:39

Sixes Are very big into self doubt and not being assured and confident.

Nicole: 00:23:46

So that's what I think.

Nicole: 00:23:48

I just bring some of that confident energy so I can help them see.

Nicole: 00:23:51

Well, why aren't you taking action?

Nicole: 00:23:52

You've already thought through all the things.

Nicole: 00:23:54

So using the personality of each individual and seeing those strengths

Nicole: 00:23:58

with a really good at if there's areas they need to develop, or maybe there's

Nicole: 00:24:02

things they can outsource, like say.

Nicole: 00:24:05

No mundane thing.

Nicole: 00:24:07

So sevens, I hate bookkeeping, if sevens don't like that, I'm like outsource it.

Nicole: 00:24:11

If you don't like it, outsource it or sandwich it, do something you really like

Nicole: 00:24:15

do the thing you don't like, and then do something fun out on the other end.

Nicole: 00:24:18

so each personality has something they're going to be really good at and

Nicole: 00:24:21

something they're not going to be good.

Julie: 00:24:23

Are there good personality matches I'm an eight.

Julie: 00:24:28

Do I jive well with a certain personality number or a person that I wouldn't jive?

Julie: 00:24:35

Well, because I'm also, you and I are like, immediately, like, Oh, like

Julie: 00:24:40

w two eights, like peas and carrots right now, but are there like two

Julie: 00:24:45

numbers that you're like, Ooh, I should probably steer clear of this

Julie: 00:24:47

personality type or is that not a thing,

Nicole: 00:24:50

I think it can depend.

Nicole: 00:24:51

So, um, I'm very conscious of this sometimes.

Nicole: 00:24:54

So my sister and I are both eight, my sister is a different kind of ADA.

Nicole: 00:24:59

I think that I am so I'm like, oh, you're acting like, yeah.

Nicole: 00:25:03

I'm like, you're acting like Alec Baldwin.

Nicole: 00:25:05

Again.

Nicole: 00:25:05

I'm going to need you to level it down.

Nicole: 00:25:07

Like when she gets in her moods, like yesterday, I saw her and she was

Nicole: 00:25:11

telling me something about at work.

Nicole: 00:25:12

Something was going weird.

Nicole: 00:25:13

I said, yeah, I could tell.

Nicole: 00:25:14

Cause you texted me and you were very rude.

Nicole: 00:25:17

And she was just like, okay.

Nicole: 00:25:19

So, you know, I think sometimes eights, we can butt heads because we might think

Nicole: 00:25:23

the other aide is trying to control us or whatever, but we also move through

Nicole: 00:25:27

it really quickly because we can be blunt and honest and just move on.

Nicole: 00:25:31

Now.

Nicole: 00:25:31

I think, um, I always say this carefully because I never think people should.

Nicole: 00:25:36

Filter their self or water, their self down, or try to be something

Nicole: 00:25:39

they're not, but at the same time when you're aware of how you're coming off.

Nicole: 00:25:43

So , I'm very intimidating.

Nicole: 00:25:44

I know that I can be bossy, bitchy, whatever other words

Nicole: 00:25:47

you want to call me aggressive.

Nicole: 00:25:49

So when I'm approaching a two, I'm not going to be like,

Nicole: 00:25:52

just go do the fucking thing.

Nicole: 00:25:53

I want to be like, okay.

Nicole: 00:25:55

So how can we just go do this thing?

Nicole: 00:25:57

How can we go take the action?

Nicole: 00:25:58

Right.

Nicole: 00:25:59

So twos, Annie.

Nicole: 00:26:01

I know.

Nicole: 00:26:01

And they.

Nicole: 00:26:03

They're more emotional, even fours are more emotional, especially

Nicole: 00:26:05

all that heart center piece.

Nicole: 00:26:07

So the two, three, and four, but when I approached them, it's going

Nicole: 00:26:09

to be a little bit different.

Nicole: 00:26:11

It's not going to be as much fluff as with a three.

Nicole: 00:26:14

I would be.

Nicole: 00:26:15

Just go set your alarm and B we're a two.

Nicole: 00:26:18

I would, you know, let's be a little bit nicer.

Nicole: 00:26:20

Nicole.

Nicole: 00:26:20

Let's use some nicer language then I would approach, maybe a one or a, or a three.

Nicole: 00:26:27

Knowing how you're coming across the perception of how others perceive you.

Nicole: 00:26:30

Because I remember the first time somebody told me I was intimidated.

Nicole: 00:26:33

I was like, oh, that's funny.

Nicole: 00:26:35

I'm not intimidating.

Nicole: 00:26:37

But then I realized, yeah, yeah, I'm kind of.

Julie: 00:26:40

I get that.

Julie: 00:26:41

I get that from people that I'm

Nicole: 00:26:43

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:26:44

Yeah.

Julie: 00:26:45

But I also am.

Julie: 00:26:46

I feel like you can say anything to me.

Julie: 00:26:48

I'm like Teflon, Don.

Julie: 00:26:49

You can say anything to me.

Julie: 00:26:50

Let's talk about it.

Julie: 00:26:51

, so I feel like maybe that is intimidating, but I always feel like I, I allow

Julie: 00:26:55

people to say whatever they want to me.

Julie: 00:26:56

And I'm like, okay, let's, let's, let's figure this out, you know, but I

Nicole: 00:27:00

also this intensity, this energy.

Nicole: 00:27:03

So we can just be.

Nicole: 00:27:05

Intense, cause I was like, how am I intense?

Nicole: 00:27:07

I'm not, I don't feel like I'm that like, but somebody was

Nicole: 00:27:10

like, Nicole, it's your energy?

Nicole: 00:27:11

It's your presence.

Nicole: 00:27:12

It's just what you bro.

Nicole: 00:27:13

I was like, oh, like I didn't realize that.

Nicole: 00:27:17

And then I was like, okay, well this makes more sense.

Julie: 00:27:19

Yeah.

Julie: 00:27:21

So when someone works with you, do they come into working with you knowing their

Julie: 00:27:25

type or do you go through the process of discovering their type together?

Nicole: 00:27:29

So I'll ask them to take a test first and that's where we'll start.

Nicole: 00:27:34

So, you know, I'm like, send me your results if you want to pay for it.

Nicole: 00:27:37

Great.

Nicole: 00:27:37

If you don't just send me what you get and then.

Nicole: 00:27:40

If we're going through it and it's not sitting right, then we'll work through it.

Nicole: 00:27:43

I'm working with a team Right.

Nicole: 00:27:45

now for, through an agency.

Nicole: 00:27:47

And one of their members was debating between a two and a four.

Nicole: 00:27:50

So it was like, okay, we we've talked about the four before we

Nicole: 00:27:53

meet again, I would like for you to do some self-reflection

Nicole: 00:27:56

and kind of figured this out.

Nicole: 00:27:57

Cause I can't get inside your brain.

Nicole: 00:27:59

I can give you some tools and some questions and help you

Nicole: 00:28:02

decide, which is best fit.

Nicole: 00:28:04

Let's use this as a starting point.

Nicole: 00:28:05

So if I was coaching you on like, okay, you're an eight, let's

Nicole: 00:28:08

start there and go through things.

Nicole: 00:28:10

And I think , from us talking like an eight seems pretty accurate,

Nicole: 00:28:14

especially, listening through some of your older podcasts and stuff.

Julie: 00:28:19

If I came to you and I was like, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm an eight.

Julie: 00:28:23

Do I present you?

Julie: 00:28:24

My challenge?

Julie: 00:28:24

Like, this is what I'm being challenged with at work, or this

Julie: 00:28:27

is what I'm struggling with.

Julie: 00:28:29

Or like, does that come up in the, like, how does that, how do you help?

Julie: 00:28:33

I'm just, what is the, how do you help

Nicole: 00:28:36

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:28:36

So I asked them some questions, , what are your goals?

Nicole: 00:28:39

What's your biggest thing that you're struggling with right now?

Nicole: 00:28:41

Where do you want to be in three, six months?

Nicole: 00:28:45

Talk through all of that, because, we can all be struggling with different

Nicole: 00:28:48

things or even the same thing, but how you approach it and how you, solve

Nicole: 00:28:55

that problem or, or work it out in a way that's healthy is going to

Nicole: 00:28:59

be different based on that number.

Nicole: 00:29:01

A lot of times it's, I want to make more money.

Nicole: 00:29:02

I need to get in front of people?

Nicole: 00:29:04

I need to be more visible.

Nicole: 00:29:05

An eight it's just like, just go do it right?

Nicole: 00:29:08

Where, other numbers it's , okay, well six, why are you scared?

Nicole: 00:29:12

Five?

Nicole: 00:29:13

Why are you hiding?

Nicole: 00:29:14

Isolating?

Nicole: 00:29:15

Every number is going to have something.

Nicole: 00:29:18

And the Enneagram is, is that framework is that tool to help people understand,

Nicole: 00:29:23

and how they approach the business, how they do things, because some people

Nicole: 00:29:26

are like, oh, I'm not good at sales.

Nicole: 00:29:28

Okay, well maybe you're not good at asking for the sale, but is there some.

Nicole: 00:29:31

Because of XYZ and you're tight, that's holding you back from even

Nicole: 00:29:34

asking for the sale or from being visible or from whatever it is.

Julie: 00:29:40

So I'm to say we could have talked for five hours and I would still be.

Nicole: 00:29:44

Oh yeah.

Julie: 00:29:45

Not understanding a lot of what is in this eight page document about myself.

Julie: 00:29:50

So I'm going to suggest to the listeners, number one, take this test.

Julie: 00:29:54

It is, it is so interesting.

Julie: 00:29:57

Take the test, figure out your number, reach out to Nicole and say,

Julie: 00:30:03

what can I do with this information?

Julie: 00:30:07

Um, I think that would be great because I pretty much am going to, hang up with

Julie: 00:30:10

you and then send you an email and say, what else do I do with this information?

Julie: 00:30:15

Because it is, there's so much in here.

Julie: 00:30:16

And I just feel like the deeper weeds, like, like anything, the deeper we

Julie: 00:30:19

dig, the more we're going to uncover and the more useful it's going to be.

Nicole: 00:30:23

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:30:24

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:30:25

Cause then you go into subtypes and the intelligence centers.

Nicole: 00:30:29

There is so much within the Enneagram that you can use because yeah.

Nicole: 00:30:35

Self-awareness but then it's, self-mastery, and so much that

Nicole: 00:30:39

you can use for professional and personal development.

Julie: 00:30:42

Yeah, I would suggest for people, for team, you know, for

Julie: 00:30:45

entrepreneurs, know your type

Nicole: 00:30:47

Mm.

Julie: 00:30:47

your strengths and your weaknesses and not type, and then encourage, if

Julie: 00:30:53

you are S if you are on a team that works together, encourage everybody

Julie: 00:30:57

to do this so that you can begin to understand the different types and it

Julie: 00:31:00

might change the way you work together.

Nicole: 00:31:02

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:31:03

Yeah, for sure.

Julie: 00:31:05

Oh, Nicole, thank you.

Julie: 00:31:06

This was great.

Julie: 00:31:07

I mean, honestly, I love when I have a topic that I know nothing about,

Julie: 00:31:11

and then I'm like, oh, this is great.

Julie: 00:31:12

I've learned something, but I also want to know more.

Nicole: 00:31:16

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:31:17

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:31:17

I love it.

Nicole: 00:31:17

I'm so glad I was able to introduce you to the Enneagram.

Julie: 00:31:21

Okay.

Julie: 00:31:22

Thanks so much.

Julie: 00:31:23

I'm going to put links to your website, your information, in the show notes.

Julie: 00:31:30

I'm going to suggest that everybody reached out to Nicole

Julie: 00:31:32

to, to start digging into this.

Nicole: 00:31:34

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:31:35

Yeah.

Nicole: 00:31:35

And when the show goes live, when you're listening, you know, screenshot it and tag

Nicole: 00:31:39

me, I'd love to see that you've heard it.

Nicole: 00:31:40

And so I can reshare you.

Julie: 00:31:42

Yeah.

Julie: 00:31:42

Awesome.

Julie: 00:31:43

Thanks so much.

Nicole: 00:31:45

Thank you.

Julie: 00:31:48

So we clearly only scratched the surface of what Enneagrams

Julie: 00:31:52

are and how understanding what our numbers are, can help us.

Julie: 00:31:57

Each of the nine personality types we talked about is characterized by a set of

Julie: 00:32:01

dominant behaviors, motivations and fears.

Julie: 00:32:04

The goal of the Enneagram is to better understand your type so that you'll be

Julie: 00:32:08

able to make the most of your strengths.

Julie: 00:32:11

And address your weaknesses in order to achieve your full potential.

Julie: 00:32:15

Well, personalities are complex and a simple online test is not enough

Julie: 00:32:20

to tell you everything about your personality, your motivations,

Julie: 00:32:23

behaviors, strengths, or weaknesses.

Julie: 00:32:26

But I love that it offers a foundation to have a discussion about who we

Julie: 00:32:30

are, why we do the things we do.

Julie: 00:32:33

And why we react to things a certain way.

Julie: 00:32:35

I think it's fascinating.

Julie: 00:32:37

And after the conversation I had with Joe solely about my life path number, I'm

Julie: 00:32:42

so intrigued how the numbers seven and eight keep showing up in everything I do.

Julie: 00:32:48

I want to know more and I hope this conversation has made you curious as well.

Julie: 00:32:53

Do you already know your number?

Julie: 00:32:55

Did anything that Nicole said about your number resonate with you as it relates

Julie: 00:33:00

to your fears and your motivations?

Julie: 00:33:03

See when Nicole said the Enneagram eights go to a two in times of

Julie: 00:33:07

growth, that 100% tracks with me.

Julie: 00:33:10

That's when I'm building relationships easily.

Julie: 00:33:14

I'm able to express my emotions.

Julie: 00:33:16

I'm generous and I'm helpful.

Julie: 00:33:18

But during times of stress, when I go to a five, that's a hundred percent me as well.

Julie: 00:33:24

When I'm stressed, I'm worried that I'm not capable of doing all the things

Julie: 00:33:27

I want to do and become hyperactive and preoccupied with thoughts of

Julie: 00:33:31

what if this and what if that.

Julie: 00:33:35

Now.

Julie: 00:33:36

It's one thing to recognize that all of these things are happening,

Julie: 00:33:39

but it's another thing to have tools to work through them.

Julie: 00:33:42

That's what Nicole does.

Julie: 00:33:44

She helps people make sense of their motivations and fears

Julie: 00:33:47

based on their personality type.

Julie: 00:33:49

I think we could all use a better understanding of that.

Julie: 00:33:53

Anyway, there's no shortage of information out there on Enneagram types.

Julie: 00:33:56

And I encourage you to learn more about what type you are and see

Julie: 00:34:00

if it doesn't make you go, huh?

Julie: 00:34:02

When looking at their corresponding treats, fears and motivations

Julie: 00:34:05

associated with the number.

Julie: 00:34:08

And if there are any other eights out there,

Julie: 00:34:10

Let me know.

Julie: 00:34:12

So because the eight keeps showing up in my life.

Julie: 00:34:14

I found a cocktail called the number eight.

Julie: 00:34:18

And it has mezcal and ginger in it, which are two of my favorite things.

Julie: 00:34:21

How perfect is that?

Julie: 00:34:23

Here's what you're going to need a half ounce of fresh lime juice.

Julie: 00:34:27

One ounce, every Ruby red, grapefruit juice.

Julie: 00:34:30

Three fours, ounce or ginger liquor.

Julie: 00:34:32

I used to make Anton cause that's what I had.

Julie: 00:34:35

One ounce of mezcal.

Julie: 00:34:37

One dash of orange bitters.

Julie: 00:34:39

And if you want a garnish, she can have a, an orange twist or

Julie: 00:34:43

an orange wheel as a garnish.

Julie: 00:34:45

What you're going to do is you're going to add the lime juice, grapefruit juice,

Julie: 00:34:48

ginger liqour mess, cow and orange bitters to a cocktail shaker and filled with ice.

Julie: 00:34:53

Shake shake, shake, and then strain into a filled highball glass.

Julie: 00:34:58

Garnish was that orange twist or the orange wheel and surf.

Julie: 00:35:02

That's my friends.

Julie: 00:35:03

I hope you enjoyed this episode.

Julie: 00:35:04

I certainly enjoyed researching it.

Julie: 00:35:07

Um, and I hope you got something out of it.

Julie: 00:35:09

Until next week.