Episode 201

Fear Less, Do More: Wild Courage with Jenny Wood

Published on: 26th March, 2025

What if the only thing standing between you and the life you want is a little wild courage? In this bonus episode, I sit down with powerhouse author and former Google exec Jenny Wood to talk about her new book, Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It.

We dive into:

✅ How fear holds us back—and how to push through it

✅ The art of self-promotion (without feeling icky)

✅ Why you need to tout your ROI (Role, Objective, Impact)

✅ How to network inside your company to get ahead

✅ The power of asking for what you want

🔥 Plus, Jenny drops a truth bomb: “If you want to double your successes, quadruple your failures.”

Grab Wild Courage (hardcover, because bestseller lists matter!), sign up for Jenny’s newsletter, and start taking up space like you own the damn place.

📌 Links & Resources:

Drink of the week…The Fearless Flip aka Wild Courage

Click to BUY MY BOOK!

CLICK TO DOWNLOAD CHAPTER ONE AUDIO FREE

Click to BOOK ME AS A SPEAKER

Click to SIGN UP FOR MY NEWSLETTER


Julie Brown:

Website

Instagram

LinkedIn

Youtube


Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome back, friends, to this special

bonus episode of This Shit Works,

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the podcast that unpacks the science,

the strategy, and sometimes the sheer

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audacity it takes to build the network,

the career, and the life you deserve.

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I'm your host, Julie Brown, speaker,

author, and networking coach.

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And today's guest is someone who

quite literally wrote the book

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on going after what you want.

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And actually getting it.

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If you've ever felt like you were

playing too small, doubted whether

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you had the guts to go after that

big promotion or worried about what

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people might think if you actually

started advocating for yourself.

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Well, this episode is for you.

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Jenny Wood is the powerhouse

author behind Wild Courage.

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Go after what you want and get it.

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She spent 18 years climbing the ranks at

Google, built one of the company's most

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impactful career development programs,

and now she is on a mission to help

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all of us tap into the boldest, most

unapologetic versions of ourselves.

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And let me tell you this.

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This is not your typical work hard and

wait your turn advice kind of book.

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This book flips the script on

success in the best way possible.

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Like embracing your weird,

being shameless, being

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brutal, and being reckless.

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Jenny, welcome to the show.

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Jenny: Hey, it's so great to be here!

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Julie: I know.

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I'm so excited to have you.

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I have to start with this.

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18 years at Google, that's no joke.

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You climbed from entry level to executive.

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And then instead of saying, okay, I'm just

gonna coast for the rest of my career, you

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wrote this book, Wild Courage, to shake

up, People, mostly women, I'm assuming.

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What was the moment when you

knew you had to write this book?

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Jenny: well, the moment I knew I had to

write this book was observing a trend and

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I'm going to walk you through that trend.

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So think of something you want right now.

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It could be a relationship,

it could be a goal,

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Julie: Mm hmm.

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Jenny: and think about what's getting

in your way of achieving that thing.

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By the time I started working on Wild

Courage, I had directly or indirectly

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coached tens of thousands of Googlers,

executives inside and out of Google

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on leadership, influence, and success.

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And the same thing.

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Theme kept coming up, Julie, their

relationship to fear, fear of

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uncertainty, fear of failure and

fear of the judgment of others.

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Wild courage is the process of

feeling that fear and taking action.

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Anyway, it's the set of tools that help

you go after what you want and get it.

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So that moment that you asked about,

like, what was the moment that I, that

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I knew I needed to write this book?

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It was.

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This, I was sitting in a, in a mentorship

meeting and I was like, here's yet another

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person who's stuck because of their fear.

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They're talented, they're skilled,

they're experienced, and they

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can't get out of their own way.

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And I'd also been stuck not getting out

of my own way and spending years and

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years and years feeling like I wasn't

advancing or wasn't getting ahead or

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wasn't getting what I wanted in life.

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So in that moment with this one mentee, I

remember thinking, you I am frustrated and

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sad and disappointed that these people

who are so awesome are getting held back.

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And that was the moment I knew

I wanted to help people in a

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really, really significant way.

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Julie: You hit on a

couple of things there.

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I feel like we're almost,

like, indoctrinated into fear.

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Like, we're, we're never taught

what if it all goes right.

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Jenny: Right.

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Julie: know, we're, we're always

taught, like, what if it all goes wrong?

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But we're never taught about

what if it all goes right.

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Like, I feel like this book is

a little bit of a, of a lesson

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in what if it all goes right.

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Jenny: Yeah.

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It's yeah, it's interesting you say

that because I'm just like anybody

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else who gets stuck in what you're

calling, what you're describing is

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basically a negativity bias, right?

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It's the brain's cognitive

bias that helps keep us safe.

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It works in the Savannah.

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Great.

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Right.

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It's like, well, you got to

don't stick your neck out.

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You might be a lion's lunch, right?

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You kind of stick to your tribe,

you stay safe, but, but when

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you're safe, you're also safe.

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small, right?

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And, and when we overcome that

negativity bias, and by the

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way, like, let's be very real.

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I just left Google after 18 years, awesome

executive role, breadwinner for my family,

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very, very comfortable financially.

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I left to take this

massive risk on myself.

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I am betting on myself.

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I mean, did I leave to

be a starving artist?

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I don't know.

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Time will tell.

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And yeah, everything that kept me from

leaving Google over the last year and

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a half that pretty much delayed my

departure was the indoctrination of fear.

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It's like, but what if it all goes wrong?

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What if we have to move out of

our lovely house right by all

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these hiking trails in Boulder?

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What if we have to downsize because

I don't make as much money, right?

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By the way, money's really powerful.

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Like I've realized how powerful

Money is really, really powerful.

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And I've had to tap into other values

I have and start to separate, money

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and financial comfort from my value.

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Julie: Yeah.

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I, I feel like I did the same thing.

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I spent 17 years working

in corporate America.

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I was very successful, breadwinner

for my family, very comfortable.

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And at 39 I was like, I

don't wanna do this anymore.

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And I remember saying to myself,

I'm going to go out on my own.

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And I, and I did.

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I remember having that

conversation with myself.

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Well, what if it all goes wrong?

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Like, what if I, what if I don't succeed?

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And I remember saying to myself,

well, you've never failed yet.

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You know, if you fail

at this, go back to what

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Jenny: Oh my gosh.

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Literally the same thing.

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I, like, either other people talked

me into or I had to talk myself into.

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Like someone said, I was hiking with

my good friend Kelly and this was the

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kindest thing and this was a moment of,

like, deep insecurity and deep, like, WTF.

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What am I doing?

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This is so foolish.

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Um, and, and she said something and right.

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Sometimes we just need these

people to cheer us up and bring

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us along the, our own journey.

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And she said, Jenny,

whatever it is that you.

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Would do.

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I would buy stock in it, not

on your product, not in your

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process, not your company.

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I would buy stock in you kind of

like that same vibe of like, yeah,

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you've had a good track record

and you'll probably make it work.

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And then I also had to

get real with myself too.

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Like if it doesn't work, I'll go

back and get another corporate

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job and I'm probably employable.

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Right.

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Um, wait, I was going

to say something else.

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Uh, I'll turn it back over to

you, but something else you

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Julie: get, it'll come back

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Jenny: me think, yeah, it'll come

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Julie: It'll come back to you.

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I mean, one of the, I, I think one of the

things that I was so excited about going

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out on my own was I finally could decide

what success looked like on my own terms.

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And I always have joked on this podcast

that I, I failed every 360 review I

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was ever a part of because I'm just

not the normal corporate person.

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Like I am.

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Hi.

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I am loud, I swear, I say

it how it is, but I also get

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shit done and people love me.

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And that's one thing I

love about this book.

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It's literally a manifesto on

reclaiming so called negative

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traits, especially for women.

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So called negative traits.

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I'll break it down.

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Things like selfish, which I've

been called my entire life.

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Because I didn't have kids, mostly.

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Shameless, because I do,

you know, toot my own horn.

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you use the word manipulative, and I don't

think, I don't think that's a bad word

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if you're using, you know, your, your

words or your way of describing things

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to help people see your point of view.

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Even reckless, and like, reframing

these words, that's gutsy.

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That's so I think I want to talk

about all of the traits, but I want

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to talk about first, if we could

start, what was the hardest negative

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trait for you to embrace yourself?

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Jenny: Manipulative.

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Hands down.

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Yeah.

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And it's interesting, you know, at

first when I was doing keynotes,

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I would, I usually pick three of

the traits to focus on or two,

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two to three traits to focus on.

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And as I started doing keynotes around

this work, I played it safe myself.

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I was like, okay, let's

talk about being weird.

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That's authenticity at work.

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Or in life, let's talk

about being obsessed.

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That's work ethic.

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Let's talk about, um,

you know, being nosy.

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That's curiosity.

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Who doesn't want to have

insatiable curiosity?

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And then when I would move to the Q& A

portion of these keynotes, people would be

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like, Jenny, tell us about manipulative.

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And I'm like, okay.

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I guess this is why I

wrote the book in this way.

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People want to hear about the spicy stuff.

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They want to hear about

the controversial stuff.

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They want to hear about the,

the unconventional stuff.

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And so as I started answering more

questions about, okay, well, here's

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what I mean about manipulative.

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Here's what I don't

mean about manipulative.

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Here's what it looks like to take

it too far with manipulative.

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And you nailed it, Julie.

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It's exactly that it's, you know,

manipulative old definition, you

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know, intended to control, right?

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The reclaimed definition that

I hope you embrace is the.

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You know, the courage to influence other

to build others, to build relationships

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through empathy and to, you know, create

something that wasn't there before.

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Look, look at a sculptor, right?

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He takes a lump of gray, wet clay, a ball

of gray, wet clay, and he manipulates

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it into a beautiful piece of art.

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Something creative, something innovative.

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Well, think about a leader.

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You and.

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Admire or inspire to be and

think about how you might

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want to build a creative team.

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Like the artist builds a creative

piece of art, or you want to

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build an innovative process.

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Like the artist makes

something innovative.

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So it is of course, tapping into

manipulative in a good way, but that was

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the one that felt the most uncomfortable

for me, even after having written

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the book felt the most uncomfortable

for me to start talking about and

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bringing to the but yet it's the one

everybody wants to talk about Julie.

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So

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Julie: That's the one that everybody

wants to talk about because maybe they

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realize the need for it in themselves.

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Like I don't, I don't have the tools

to be able to sway people to my side

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of an argument or to see things in

me that I need them to see in me.

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Like,

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Jenny: Right.

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Exactly.

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Right.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And , it does take courage.

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It takes wild courage to, to

wield your power in the best way.

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But , if you think about an

organization, if power is what

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drives an organization, if like, if

that's the electricity that drives an

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organization, Politics are the currents

along which that power runs, right?

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And so even if we think about wielding

influence at work and you spent 17

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years in corporate, like politics

matters, get to know the key players.

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Think about who to CC and who to be CC,

go to your boss and say okay, who's

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the most important person to green like

this, go befriend them, get to know them.

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Not in a way that undermines

anybody or shrinks the pie.

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It's not a zero sum game.

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This can be a positive sum game where

you're building great relationships

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and you're offering your value and

you confidently stand behind your

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value and you bring great ideas.

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You get feedback from the right people

and you advance an agenda forward.

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Like that to me is manipulating a

situation that benefits you, but also

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benefits your team, your manager, the

organization, and sometimes the world.

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Sure.

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Julie: I think people don't understand

as you're hitting something on the

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head here, as far as like network,

my world and networking is the power

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of building internal relationships

within companies to advance.

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What you want to happen or advance

the company's problem solving

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skills or ability to think bigger.

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People don't realize that the, the

relationships within companies

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are your best team building and

also best problem solving skillset.

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Jenny: I, I call this fluent in

influence, fluent in influence.

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And okay, everybody knows about

managing up kind of old news, right?

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Um, but I encourage you to manage higher,

to manage diagonally and to manage

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outside, manage higher, higher than your

boss, build a relationship with your

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boss's boss, meet them twice a year.

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Ask if they'll be your mentor or

your sponsor, and we can get into

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the difference between mentors

and sponsors if that's useful.

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Manage diagonally.

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If you think of your manager as

straight up the org chart, well,

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their peers sit just, you know,

to the right and left of them.

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So that's a diagonal line to you.

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Manage diagonally.

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If your manager has seven peers, get to

know two or three of them that genuinely.

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, you connect with that, that genuinely

have things you can offer that where you

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genuinely have things you can offer them.

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Right.

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We're not looking for kind of

smarmy, like, Oh, promotions

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are happening in three days.

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Let me set up time with like seven

out of seven people who are deciding

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it 24 hours before the decision.

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It's like, no, in a very

thoughtful and intentional way.

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Get to know these people and collaborate

on a project together or ask for 15

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minutes to present something in their

meeting because their team has done

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something similar and they might be able

to offer useful feedback or help you

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understand what worked, what didn't work.

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And that's managed diagonally up

into the right on an org chart.

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Then there's managed outside.

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This is one of the biggest

mistakes I made at Google, Julie.

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So, you know, Google's an amazing,

amazing place to work and I kept moving

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up and so it kept feeling really solid.

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Um, but I had this incredible manager.

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Who said, you know, every six months

you should have a conversation with

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someone outside of Google just to see

how you feel about the market outside.

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You don't have to officially apply

for any roles, but just continue

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to build that network outside.

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Pressure test.

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If you still want to be here,

see what your market worth is.

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Right?

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I never once did it.

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I never once did it.

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And it was such a miss.

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And I think I had this like insular

intra Google view, but that's something

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that I would just guide anybody to do.

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See what's going on outside your company.

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And even if you feel

like you work for the.

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Best company in the world.

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And I remembered what I was going to

say before, when I, you said it will

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come back to me and you are right.

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You said that you just got to

this point where you're like, I

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want to go work for my, like, I

just want to go do my own thing.

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I want to be my own boss.

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I want to, I want to start , my own thing.

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I never felt that way.

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I never once thought I

was going to write a book.

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I never once thought

I'd be an entrepreneur.

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I, if someone said this was going

to be my future path, I would

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have laughed at them all day long.

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I thought I'd be at Google the

next 15 years and retire there.

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I loved it.

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I was successful.

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I was productive.

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I was happy.

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And so.

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This is taking us totally

off on a different

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Julie: Okay.

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Jenny: networking internally, but

it did, it is like been a really

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interesting introspective part of

my life because I never expected

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this and that made it even scarier.

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And it made me like kind of have to

deviate from my plan that I had in

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my very left brain forward, , style.

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And so that's made it even scarier.

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More interesting and more daunting

because never really wanted this it

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just kind of fell in my lap and now

I want it now I'm so excited But it's

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been interesting journey to over to

pivot on what I always thought would be

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Julie: You know, it's interesting.

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I, the company that I now own, which

is nine years old, this year is not the

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company I started when I said, I want, I

don't want to work for anybody anymore.

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What is so interesting is I started a

company that I thought was a consultancy

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and quickly the market asked me

for something completely different.

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Jenny: they ask you for?

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Julie: Speaking on networking,

writing the book, having the podcast.

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I was a consultant.

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I was, you know, I was a doer.

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And I always thought

those who can't do teach.

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And I was like, I'm never going

to teach because I'm a doer.

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Jenny: Wait, yeah.

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Oh, keep going, keep

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Julie: No, no, go ahead.

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Jenny: No, you go

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Julie: And, but sometimes.

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This is the thing that's so wonderful

about designing a network of people

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who literally have nothing but your

best interest at heart and are also

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not intimidated by your future success

or what you could become, is, it was

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my friends, it was the people in my

network who said, you are not playing

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to your full ability, like, you are

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Jenny: Oh, that's cool.

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Julie: need to talk about this.

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You need to be on stages.

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You need to teach people.

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You need to write a book.

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You need to have a podcast.

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I didn't see that in myself.

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Jenny: So that's interesting that

you say that because I also had a

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similar pivot where it did take some

other people saying, Jenny, like you

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have something that you need to be

sharing, and I studied economics.

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I was in a data and operational

role my entire career at Google.

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Basically I sat, I was sort of the

COO of various divisions of Google.

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Some of them large divisions

that sat between sales and

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engineering for the most part.

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So I lived in spreadsheets all day.

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It was lots of analytics, lots of

kind of data driven type of thinking,

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and I had a manager once who said.

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And I almost thought I'd be going

more toward the engineering path,

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like the product management path.

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And cause I love numbers and I just,

it's like puts me in my happy place.

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But a manager once said to me,

Jenny, this is actually not

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what you're really good at.

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And at first I was offended and

I was like, okay, are you, is

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this like constructive feedback?

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You're telling me I'm bad at my job.

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And he's like, you're a general manager.

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Like you are, you're a leader.

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You're a people leader.

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You're a general manager.

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You're a generalist.

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And I was like, generalist, what

do you mean I'm a generalist?

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Like, are you.

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Julie: expert,

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Jenny: Yeah, right.

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I'm like a generalist.

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I'm like, that is terrible news.

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But, um, a, it did, it did shift me into

leadership at Google because as a leader

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at Google, you really are a generalist.

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You have to be good at the

analytics, but you also need to be

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mindful of how you interact with

people and how you give feedback.

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You need to bring stakeholders

along the journey.

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You need to land reorgs.

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Like these are varied skills.

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And so I think, yeah, that is, I guess

what a generalist is, but it also made

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me realize that I am not at good as

good at the data analysis, the nitty

381

:

gritty, the engineering kind of stuff

as other people are, as I thought I was.

382

:

So it was a good slap in the face

to an extent to make me realize,

383

:

yeah, I want to be all hard skills.

384

:

I want to be all quant, but

like soft skills and qualitative

385

:

and helping people is.

386

:

Real valid and real fun and

really where my sweet spot is.

387

:

And that took me a number

of years to, to realize.

388

:

Julie: So one thing that happens when,

like you and me, , when we leave a

389

:

company and start our own process is,

um, we, we have to sell ourselves.

390

:

We have to sell ourselves.

391

:

Nobody can buy you, you, your product,

your book, whatever, unless they

392

:

know who you are, unless they know

your name and what you talk about.

393

:

And so when you own your own

company, self promoting or self

394

:

marketing is, it is part of the game.

395

:

No matter how hard it is to do,

you understand explicitly that

396

:

is part of owning a business.

397

:

But there are people who are still in

corporate America who don't understand.

398

:

The value of self promotion and your book

talks about this so I would love to talk

399

:

about whether you own your own company

or whether you work for a company.

400

:

What are the ways we can get

over the fear of self promotion

401

:

and tooting our own horn?

402

:

Jenny: Yeah, sure.

403

:

So very common question and

very uncomfortable for people.

404

:

So this would fall under being

shameless, which is the courage to

405

:

stand behind your efforts and abilities.

406

:

My favorite, really practical

thing to do here within a company

407

:

for sure is send a 15 minute email

every Monday to your manager.

408

:

I literally had keynote this morning

, at Google and this was a group of

409

:

really smart, smart, capable people.

410

:

And I said, what percent of you send

an email every Monday morning to your

411

:

boss with a couple of bullets about

things you did last week , which I

412

:

would say are little mini brags, right?

413

:

Like I'm proud of how the CSAT,

metric has improved by 10 percent or.

414

:

I'm proud of the stakeholders.

415

:

I got on board for the, new launch of

the chocolate product, whatever it is.

416

:

Um, you know, a couple of bullets from,

from last week and a couple bullets of

417

:

what you're going to focus on this week.

418

:

I said, what percent of you do that?

419

:

And it was like under 10%.

420

:

And I know that everybody in

this room is doing awesome stuff.

421

:

I have to say as a Google exec,

I had a lot of leaders under me.

422

:

Even they only did this

a fraction of the time.

423

:

And the ones who did Julie, this

15 minute Monday morning email, the

424

:

ones who did Stand out big time.

425

:

And it doesn't have to be complicated.

426

:

It doesn't have to be crazy bold.

427

:

Like you're walking into a

room and announcing I am Julie.

428

:

Hear me roar.

429

:

It's just an email.

430

:

You send it to your boss every Monday.

431

:

And to me, that's like one of

these big, small things, right?

432

:

These big things that.

433

:

Have a ton of big impact, but

they're really small in execution.

434

:

, and that's, to me, the

first place to start.

435

:

And then by the way, there are

ways that you can make those

436

:

bullets even more impactful.

437

:

I encourage people to think about the

ROI of each bullet, not the classic

438

:

ROI return on investment, but a

different ROI, what was your role?

439

:

What was your objective

and what was your impact?

440

:

And that will help you

double your numbers.

441

:

So not, um, not I.

442

:

You know, got, I got some people

on board with my plan last week.

443

:

Right.

444

:

That's like, okay, that doesn't have

role or it doesn't have, Oh, objective.

445

:

It doesn't have I impact.

446

:

Maybe it's role.

447

:

I was in charge of getting,

seven people aligned on the

448

:

new chocolate launch strategy.

449

:

Right.

450

:

Well, that actually covers

role and your objective, right?

451

:

Seven people in charge of seven

people, your objective, getting

452

:

them aligned on the new chocolate

launch and then your impact.

453

:

And.

454

:

After we had these three meetings,

we had, 70 percent of the bio of

455

:

the stakeholders bought in, right?

456

:

Then you've got numbers in there.

457

:

You're talking about your

impact, your ROI, your role,

458

:

your objective, your impact.

459

:

And by the way, you can do that in

your little Monday morning email,

460

:

but then you are so well prepped to

write your accomplishment bullets at

461

:

the end of the quarter or the end of

the year, or write a resume for when

462

:

you're looking for your next role.

463

:

Julie: I gotta tell you that that

hits me because this I think this

464

:

is I mean I'm clearly over it I own

my own company for almost a decade

465

:

now, but I was let go from a job

466

:

Jenny: Okay.

467

:

Yeah.

468

:

Julie: and this was back in, , the

great recession, it wasn't like,

469

:

you know, huge sort of, I'm not

exactly saying this right, but

470

:

there were lots of people being let

471

:

Jenny: Sure.

472

:

Yeah, yeah,

473

:

Julie: I was let go from a job.

474

:

And when I was inquiring about why I

was being let go, I was told it was

475

:

because I wasn't producing enough, which

476

:

Jenny: Oh, interesting.

477

:

Julie: What I had not done was I had not

let people in the company know how much I

478

:

Jenny: Oh my gosh.

479

:

Julie: I had a list.

480

:

I had a list of all of the things that I

had accomplished, all of the jobs I had

481

:

brought in, all of the introductions I

had made, all the RFPs that I had brought.

482

:

I had kept it, but I had kept it

to myself of as a running tally

483

:

of how good I was at my job.

484

:

Jenny: Hmm.

485

:

Julie: And then when I was let go in

my exit interview, I gave it to the CFO

486

:

Jenny: Hmm.

487

:

Julie: and I said, I just want you to

know this is what you're letting go of.

488

:

This is what I have accomplished

in the 12 months that I was here.

489

:

And he said to me, I had no idea.

490

:

Jenny: Fascinating.

491

:

Julie: do you think this shit came in?

492

:

But if you are not, I think the lesson

here, and it's just coming, if you are

493

:

not taking, responsibility, and if you

are not showing your accomplishments,

494

:

someone will take them away from you.

495

:

Someone will say that they

are their accomplishments.

496

:

Jenny: Sure.

497

:

Or they'll just like sit out there

in the abyss without anybody knowing.

498

:

Right?

499

:

Like, yeah, I think

absolutely that is true.

500

:

And I've for sure seen that happen.

501

:

Yeah.

502

:

heartbreaking when someone

takes credit for your work.

503

:

But there's also just the

classic, like there might be stuff

504

:

happening that nobody's aware of.

505

:

And it happens behind the scenes and

like the wheels keep turning, especially

506

:

for people in more operational roles.

507

:

Um, or, you know, sales roles where

it's kind of a joint effort and

508

:

the whole team gets credit, right?

509

:

I, I say this phrase to

people, it's not what you do.

510

:

It's what your manager

thinks you do that matters.

511

:

And like, you know, hate me for

it, but I keep it real and, you

512

:

know, And I think that's an element

here is that it's not what you do.

513

:

It's what your manager thinks you do.

514

:

And it can be uncomfortable for

people to share these wins, but

515

:

that's why I break them down into

micro wins or here's another one.

516

:

Usually things are

collaborative on a team, right?

517

:

So let's say in this chocolate

launch, like it's you and it's

518

:

five other people working on it.

519

:

You could take a little bit

of a de facto leadership role.

520

:

And my guess is that you are a leader.

521

:

It's very clear that you are.

522

:

And my guess is that a lot

of you listening are leaders.

523

:

Otherwise I don't think you'd

be investing in your own growth

524

:

by listening to this podcast.

525

:

So if there are five of you on the

team and you just kind of step up,

526

:

send an email to those five people

thanking them for their work of

527

:

like what they've done, like maybe

someone wrote an awesome proposal.

528

:

Maybe somebody did a

great job with clients.

529

:

Maybe somebody renegotiated a partnership

deal, write an email to those five people

530

:

and say, Hey, great work, Julie, on

this great job, Mike, on that great job,

531

:

Barry, on this other thing, CC your boss.

532

:

CC, your boss's boss.

533

:

You kind of like thank down

or think across cheer up.

534

:

Right?

535

:

So just by simply popping somebody

else in that email there, then

536

:

you're not tooting your own horn.

537

:

You're tooting other people's horns.

538

:

But by the fact that you're the one

sending the email, it shows like, Oh

539

:

wow, if Jenny's thanking them, she

must be in some kind of leadership

540

:

capacity on this or at least stepping

up even if you're an unofficial leader.

541

:

So that's another thing you can do

is you can think down, cheer up.

542

:

Julie: So, you have this thing

in the book you talk about that I

543

:

want to hit on because I think it's

really important, and you call them,

544

:

uh, you talk about avoiding naps.

545

:

Jenny: Yeah.

546

:

So nap work.

547

:

Yeah.

548

:

Yeah.

549

:

Julie: I'm a big fan of the real kind of

nap where you take a nap in the middle

550

:

of the day, but you are talking about

avoid doing not actually promotable work.

551

:

Jenny: Yes.

552

:

Julie: What is an example of

not actually promotable work

553

:

that we're all doing every day?

554

:

Jenny: Being the, if you're in a

company with a large team, being the

555

:

seventh person to reply all on the

happy birthday, Jimmy email, right?

556

:

Going to every meeting where you

neither add value nor you derive value.

557

:

When you're in a meeting and

your boss says, okay, who can

558

:

plan the , the holiday party?

559

:

Raising your hand immediately because

it's been three seconds and nobody

560

:

has raised their hand and you feel

like I need to raise my hand and

561

:

someone has to fill this void, right?

562

:

Because I feel uncomfortable

by the fact or with the fact

563

:

that nobody is stepping up.

564

:

And so not actually promotable work is.

565

:

Basically, sitting on that feeling

of, I have to respond to everything,

566

:

I have to attend every meeting.

567

:

Now, there are a lot of meetings you

do want to go to and you should go

568

:

to, but probably not every single

one on your calendar, certainly

569

:

in a corporate environment.

570

:

And, that is not

actually promotable work.

571

:

Yes, it's great to be a team player.

572

:

But if you planned the company

offsite last year, if you plan the

573

:

holiday offsite last year, the holiday

dinner last year, let somebody else

574

:

have that really fun opportunity.

575

:

While you get more important work done.

576

:

And I say more important because

you don't get promoted by being

577

:

responsive to every email.

578

:

You don't get promoted by being.

579

:

Going to meetings without fail.

580

:

You don't get promoted by

being the culture builder.

581

:

Yes, it's important.

582

:

Yes, it is great for team building.

583

:

You want to balance

the right amount of it.

584

:

So I would say the promotable work, the

actually promotable work is leading the

585

:

H one customer satisfaction project,

doing the segmentation project that

586

:

helps you identify who are your most

important customers and who are your

587

:

middle important customers and who

are your least important customers.

588

:

That's promotable work.

589

:

So not actually promotable

work is basically saying yes to

590

:

the big, those latter examples

and saying no to the small.

591

:

And so of course, not actually

promotable stands for nap.

592

:

Don't nap in the office.

593

:

Uh, and, at least try to tip the

scales to 10 percent less of the small.

594

:

Julie: A big theme in the book

Wild Courage is giving yourself

595

:

permission to take up space.

596

:

Jenny: Mm hmm.

597

:

Julie: So take up space, go

after what you want, stop waiting

598

:

for someone else's approval.

599

:

If someone, and I'm sure there are

people, if someone is listening

600

:

today and they are feeling stuck

or know they are playing small,

601

:

what is one step they can take today?

602

:

Jenny: One step they can take

today is to write down what is

603

:

it that's getting in their way.

604

:

Like if you feel stuck, if you feel small,

what is one thing that you want, right?

605

:

One thing you want that you

want to go after and get.

606

:

I call this one thing.

607

:

We're going to walk through basically

a mini goal setting exercise because

608

:

this does not require being bold.

609

:

Really.

610

:

It doesn't even require, you know,

sending your manager anything.

611

:

It's just one internal exercise that

I call rock, chalk, talk, and walk.

612

:

Rock.

613

:

What is the one thing that you want to do?

614

:

Maybe it's lose 10 pounds, right?

615

:

What is the actual micro

step you're going to take?

616

:

Okay.

617

:

And that is chalk.

618

:

You write it down.

619

:

Okay.

620

:

You write down the goal and maybe

that's replace all the big dishes

621

:

in my kitchen with small dishes.

622

:

Talk is say it out loud, right?

623

:

Tell a friend, Hey, I have

a goal of losing 10 pounds.

624

:

There's something called

implementation intention.

625

:

So there's a lot of work around

this, where if you say it out

626

:

loud, you're X percent more

likely to accomplish the thing.

627

:

And then walk is walk the walk.

628

:

You got to go out in the next 72 hours and

buy those smaller dishes and replace them.

629

:

So without, without walking the walk,

it's just kind of a pipe dream, but

630

:

I think what would help would really

be, Causes people to be stuck is

631

:

thinking I've got this huge goal and

it's never going to happen only to

632

:

have like a mentee shared this with me.

633

:

And I'm like, that is a

totally achievable goal, right?

634

:

But until you go through

that process of rock.

635

:

What is the goal?

636

:

It is chalk.

637

:

You write it down.

638

:

It is talk.

639

:

You say it out loud.

640

:

It is walk.

641

:

You walk the walk.

642

:

That is the framework.

643

:

Um, and without that, it's just

kind of an idea in your head.

644

:

That's the first step I,

I recommend people take.

645

:

Julie: Yeah, I mean, I, and I say this

with people all the time when you talked

646

:

about this implementation intention,

if you don't tell people what you want,

647

:

other people cannot help you achieve it.

648

:

Jenny: Oh my gosh, truer

words have never been spoken.

649

:

I was once at a street fair, Julie,

and I so badly aspired to be the

650

:

head, the co head of the Google

Boulder office, and it was like a

651

:

goal I really wanted to achieve.

652

:

And it was a volunteer position.

653

:

It was in addition to my core

role, but I felt like it was just

654

:

something I was so passionate about.

655

:

And I really love that community.

656

:

I'm at a street fair.

657

:

Okay.

658

:

In Boulder on a Sunday, my daughter is

bouncing on this little bouncy castle.

659

:

The head of the Boulder

office, her daughter's also

660

:

bouncing on the bouncy castle.

661

:

We barely know each other.

662

:

And I, we kind of say hi and,

and I blurred out, I blurred out.

663

:

I aspire to be the co head of the

Google Boulder office with you

664

:

one day and to help inspire these

thousands of people in the office.

665

:

And I said it and I was

like, OMG, why did I do that?

666

:

Like it's Sunday.

667

:

Keep it light.

668

:

Keep it breezy.

669

:

Like, why are you so intense, Jenny?

670

:

What is wrong with you?

671

:

So much shame, right?

672

:

And then she walks away, she turns around

with a smile and she says, Jenny, thank

673

:

you for sharing your intentions with me.

674

:

And lo and behold, a couple of

years later, I'm offered the co lead

675

:

role of the Google Boulder office.

676

:

Julie: mean, that's, that is the lesson.

677

:

That is the lesson.

678

:

You have to put it into the

universe out loud what you want.

679

:

Jenny: I would argue it's in addition

to putting it into the universe, you

680

:

have to tell a person like you got to

tell the person who matters, right?

681

:

Like tell your boss, tell your

boss's boss, tell the head

682

:

of the Google Boulder office.

683

:

To me it is, it's as much a setting

intention thing and a mindset thing at

684

:

is as it is like, no, no, like go, go

work with these people to make it happen.

685

:

Julie: yeah.

686

:

And the worst thing that can happen

is you don't get what you want.

687

:

But we are living again.

688

:

We're coming full circle here.

689

:

We're not living in this.

690

:

What if it all goes right scenario?

691

:

We're constantly living in the

what if it goes wrong scenario.

692

:

Jenny: Right.

693

:

And I almost think that it's, is it

the worst thing that could happen maybe

694

:

for that one particular goal that you

aspire to achieve, but it's also kind

695

:

of the best thing that could happen

because if you want to double your

696

:

successes, quadruple your failures, right?

697

:

Like look at any successful leader,

like the amount of failure and rejection

698

:

that they must've had to go through to

get wherever they are is staggering.

699

:

To me, the best thing about

admiring successful leaders is.

700

:

Is really unpacking the

discography of their career, right?

701

:

Like not just their greatest

hits, not just the hit album, but

702

:

really unpacking, like, what were

the failures that got you here?

703

:

What were the misses?

704

:

What were the gaffes and

what were the mistakes?

705

:

And it's all those things that add up

to them being successful over time.

706

:

So it feels like the worst thing

in the moment, but I don't know.

707

:

I find that like muster the wild courage

to go after what you want and you'll

708

:

discover a vital truth, no matter.

709

:

Whether you win or fail or any

one specific thing, you will never

710

:

feel as powerful, purposeful, and

alive as when you're pushing past

711

:

that fear and realizing the joy

and success on the other side.

712

:

Because And everything you've

wanted is on the other side of fear.

713

:

So reach for it.

714

:

Julie: Yeah, we don't usually

regret the things we do.

715

:

We regret the things we don't

716

:

Jenny: There's a lot of research on this.

717

:

Dan Pink wrote the book, The Power

of Regret, and people were much,

718

:

much, much, much, much more likely

to regret the moves they didn't

719

:

take than the moves they did take.

720

:

He has this great line, we oftentimes

rationalize why you shouldn't send the

721

:

email to your, to your leader, why you

shouldn't go up to that person at a

722

:

networking event and introduce yourself,

why you shouldn't leave Google to, take

723

:

on this big Big risk of writing a book.

724

:

And Dan Pink says, rationalization

is a weapon so powerful.

725

:

It should require a background check.

726

:

And I love that

727

:

Julie: Yeah, he's amazing.

728

:

Jenny: He's so good.

729

:

Julie: he's amazing.

730

:

Um, literally I could talk

to you for hours, but we're

731

:

coming up against your time.

732

:

, before I wrap, tell us where people can

find wild courage and they, how they

733

:

can keep up with your amazing work.

734

:

First, I'm going to let the

audience know that wild courage

735

:

hit the bookshelves yesterday.

736

:

Today is March 26th.

737

:

It hit yesterday, March 25th.

738

:

Where can they find it?

739

:

Where can they find more about you?

740

:

Jenny: The books available

anywhere books are sold available

741

:

in hardcover, audio book, ebook.

742

:

Um, and actually here's in

the spirit of asking for what

743

:

you want, here's a fun fact.

744

:

Thank you.

745

:

Authors care a lot about bestseller

lists and that people don't realize

746

:

it's actually only hardcover books

that count for the bestseller list.

747

:

So if you're on the fence between an

ebook, an audio book and a hardcover

748

:

and you like all different formats,

I'm going to unapologetically ask you

749

:

to get the hardcover and of course,

you know, prioritize whatever is your

750

:

better, uh, your, your better format.

751

:

But if you're indifferent,

hardcover is, is the way to go

752

:

for any author with a new book.

753

:

And then you also asked, uh,

how people can stay in touch.

754

:

I have a newsletter that

comes out every Tuesday.

755

:

It's Jennywood.

756

:

com slash newsletter.

757

:

I T S J E N N Y W O O D.

758

:

com slash newsletter.

759

:

Get you a bite sized tip to

help you go after what you

760

:

want in your career and get it.

761

:

So that's a, always a fun one.

762

:

That's super short.

763

:

Really tiny under a two minute read.

764

:

Julie: Perfect.

765

:

So if you're ready to step into

wild courage, get the book, get the

766

:

hard cover book, read it, dog ear

it, highlight the hell out of it.

767

:

Most importantly, use it.

768

:

Don't take in all this

knowledge and everything.

769

:

Jenny is, has taught you and not use it.

770

:

, go to it's Jennywood.

771

:

com.

772

:

Actually, whatever that is,

I'll put it in the show notes.

773

:

Don't listen to me.

774

:

Just go to the show notes.

775

:

and thanks so much for being here.

776

:

Jenny: Thanks for having me, Julie.

777

:

What a pleasure.

778

:

And I love everything you stand for.

779

:

And I love that your world pivoted

from consulting to like, no, people

780

:

need to hear you speak on big stages.

781

:

And it's, it's really fun to be

in this world together with you.

782

:

Julie: Thank you.

783

:

All right, friends.

784

:

That is a wrap on this

special bonus episode.

785

:

If you're still sitting here thinking,

maybe I should be a little more shameless,

786

:

reckless, weird, then congratulations.

787

:

You've been officially wildcardgified.

788

:

Is that a word?

789

:

I don't know.

790

:

Listen, this episode had so many great

takeaways, but if I had to dial in

791

:

on one, It would be tout your ROIs,

your role, your objective, and your

792

:

impact, because if you're doing great

work, but no one knows about it.

793

:

Does it even count?

794

:

Just kidding.

795

:

It still counts, but nobody

knows about it and they should.

796

:

So whether it's that 15 minute Monday

morning email to your boss that she

797

:

mentioned or that well placed CC or

BCC, make sure the right people know

798

:

the baddest things you're up to.

799

:

Because literally you deserve to

have your work be seen, valued,

800

:

and you know, honestly rewarded.

801

:

And, and it's that time, on to the

drink of the week, which this This

802

:

year, this year, it's been so long

since I've been doing these regularly.

803

:

This week is the fearless flip,

aka the wild courage in a glass.

804

:

Here's what you're going to need.

805

:

Two ounces of bourbon, which

is bold and unapologetic.

806

:

Three fourths ounce of honey

syrup, a half ounce of fresh lemon

807

:

juice, you know, bright and sassy.

808

:

A quarter ounce of chartreuse.

809

:

This is wild.

810

:

It's herbaceous because, you know, courage

should have a little mystery to it.

811

:

One whole egg.

812

:

This is where the wild comes in and

also where the expensive comes in

813

:

with the price of eggs right now.

814

:

Two dashes of Angostura bitters and

grated nutmeg for, nutmeg for garners.

815

:

Here's what you're going to do.

816

:

You're going to add all the ingredients

except the nutmeg to a shaker and you're

817

:

going to dry shake, meaning you're

not going to add any ice to it first.

818

:

You're just going to shake, shake,

shake for like 10 to 15 seconds.

819

:

This is to get like that

egg emulsified, okay?

820

:

Now, Add the ice and then shake

again, hard, for another 15 seconds.

821

:

Strain into a chilled coupe glass.

822

:

Garnish with freshly grated nutmeg.

823

:

Listen, this cocktail could go really

well or it could go really bad.

824

:

I'm, I found this, uh, this recipe

and it said one whole egg and I feel

825

:

like it should be one egg white.

826

:

I'm gonna say start it with

the egg white first, okay?

827

:

Because I couldn't find it.

828

:

Anyways, I'm brambling.

829

:

Start it with the egg white first.

830

:

All right, you can tell

I'm out of practice.

831

:

Sorry, guys.

832

:

All right, friends, I hope you enjoyed

this special bonus episode of the podcast.

833

:

Be sure to check back in as I will

be offering more bonus episodes in

834

:

the future, and I've already got

some great ones lined up for you.

835

:

If you like what you heard

today, please leave a review

836

:

and subscribe to the podcast.

837

:

Also please remember to share the podcast

to help it reach a larger audience.

838

:

If you want more Julie Brown, that is me.

839

:

You can find my book, This Shit

Works, on Amazon or Barnes and Noble.

840

:

You can find me on

LinkedIn at JulieBrownBD.

841

:

You know the rule, just let me know

where you found me when you reach out.

842

:

I am JulieBrown underscore BD on

Instagram, but honestly I haven't

843

:

been posting there as much.

844

:

Um, I'm pretty much doing

everything on LinkedIn now.

845

:

Or you could pop over to my

website, JulieBrownSpeaks.

846

:

com.

847

:

dot com until next time, which

will not be too, too far into the

848

:

future until next time, friends.

849

:

Cheers.

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About the Podcast

This Shit Works
The people you meet can 100% Change Your Life! Networking is how you meet those people. Which sucks because you hate networking, you think you're bad at networking, and you certainly don’t have time to network. Bullshit! Welcome to This Shit Works, a weekly podcast hosted by entrepreneur, CEO, public speaker, author, business development strategist and networking coach Julie Brown. Just don’t call her Downtown Julie Brown - she doesn’t like that.

Each week Julie will bring to you her no nonsense tips, tricks and conversations around networking your way to more friends, more adventures and way more success!
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